2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

[vassilispapadop]

You can't really tell from a small sample of 7 laps but pace doesn't seem that bad but not spectacular either. Though someone could be happy to be 0.5s/lap from Alonso i guess. But did everybody started the race with same tyres?

[carisi2k]

I must say I was a little disappointed with the Toro Rosso drivers in Australia. Not necessarily on pace but Gasly's mistake in qualifying ruined any chance he had in the race and his early lap times mentioned above were probably as a result of being stuck behind either a williams or sauber early in the race. Because of this I think you can ignore those lap time comparisons.

I am not so worried about Honda reliability as I think Gasly's problem looks more like a garbage collection issue rather then anything significantly wrong with reliability on the Honda. I would say that if Sainz or even Kyvat was in the Toro Rosso that it would probably have been higher up the grid then it was.

[vassilispapadop]

if i'm not mistaken Gasly was sent out only twice in Q1 while the majority of drivers had 3 attempts. Perhaps the team tried to save tires for the race. Either way if he didn't make a mistake would have been in Q2(he was 2 tenths up Hartley' time in till turn 3). If you look closely Galsy's lap times he clocks an uwful 6 seconds slower on lap 6 and then picks up his pace by 1 second for 8 laps before retiring. He might engaged a more aggressive pu setting thus the failure? I'm somehow optimistic for next few races.

[ispano6]

if i'm not mistaken Gasly was sent out only twice in Q1 while the majority of drivers had 3 attempts. Perhaps the team tried to save tires for the race. Either way if he didn't make a mistake would have been in Q2(he was 2 tenths up Hartley' time in till turn 3). If you look closely Galsy's lap times he clocks an uwful 6 seconds slower on lap 6 and then picks up his pace by 1 second for 8 laps before retiring. He might engaged a more aggressive pu setting thus the failure? I'm somehow optimistic for next few races.

He bottomed out, watch the video earlier in this thread. The 6 seconds might have been due to going wide or a temporary yellow. He went wide on turn 12 for some reason. Maybe the front was washing away? There seemed to be a bit of body roll too, more so than the Sauber behind it.

[techman]

iam not disheartened , melbourne doesnt normally give a true representation but come bahrain, we might get a better picture. i remember williams was a midfield team in melbourne a few years ago but when they went to malaysia they were top and fighting for podiums. so i believe we just have to wait till bahrain. frank has said its by mid season that you can expect them to fight with the midfield top runners. so lets wait.

[loner]

indeed .. the only thing made me meh was the retirement but when it turned to be not a normal pu failure but due a hit
you can actualy see the PU not bad and the car is a fat butt like a cow , when they fine tune the PU and make a slim rear with some upgraded aero i assume they will gain some respectable time
Hartley meh thogh

[rogazilla]

The pace is somewhat expected. When I read the interview and Tanabe said that they were not detuned during testing... That actually allowed me to set an actual expectation that they are going to run in the back of the midfield with the pace the demostrated in testing. I think the reliability during testing was still a big step up.

The problem with MGU-H is a concern even if it is caused by the bump. It needs to be addressed and it doesn't matter if it is the damper on the PU or the installation with the Chassis. Does not matter, this is reliability and a race car is expected to get some bump and impact. No excuses for this.

Drivers: it is painful that while I want both drivers to grow and glad they got a chance... they should have put Button in one of the car. Or anyone with some more experiences. Neither drivers have experience at Aus and they have to provide feed back to setup the car and how to use the tires, understand the new cars and so on. It is what it is now, just hope both of them mature quickly.

[Marti_EF3]

The pace is somewhat expected. When I read the interview and Tanabe said that they were not detuned during testing... That actually allowed me to set an actual expectation that they are going to run in the back of the midfield with the pace the demostrated in testing. I think the reliability during testing was still a big step up.

The problem with MGU-H is a concern even if it is caused by the bump. It needs to be addressed and it doesn't matter if it is the damper on the PU or the installation with the Chassis. Does not matter, this is reliability and a race car is expected to get some bump and impact. No excuses for this.

Drivers: it is painful that while I want both drivers to grow and glad they got a chance... they should have put Button in one of the car. Or anyone with some more experiences. Neither drivers have experience at Aus and they have to provide feed back to setup the car and how to use the tires, understand the new cars and so on. It is what it is now, just hope both of them mature quickly.

I think that until european season at Spain starts, they will be strugling at the back due to the delay on chasis development because of the late engine swap. And I think too that the issue on the engine was an isolated one caused by the exclusive Albert Park layout, and the next tracks are better for at least reliabilty. Let's see, but if in Barcelona they were reliable, it's not an illusion, and there is a real improvement on that side.

For the drivers, let's give em some time to adapt to the F1, the engine, tires... I think Gasly have a good base to be good when he adapts to the car and tires...

At least I hope so... Helmut Marko sometimes talk BS, but if he says Honda will be good, is because he've seen something we cant know... Only speculating on this, but I want to believe in it

[etusch]

I think that until european season at Spain starts, they will be strugling at the back due to the delay on chasis development because of the late engine swap. And I think too that the issue on the engine was an isolated one caused by the exclusive Albert Park layout, and the next tracks are better for at least reliabilty. Let's see, but if in Barcelona they were reliable, it's not an illusion, and there is a real improvement on that side.

For the drivers, let's give em some time to adapt to the F1, the engine, tires... I think Gasly have a good base to be good when he adapts to the car and tires...

At least I hope so... Helmut Marko sometimes talk BS, but if he says Honda will be good, is because he've seen something we cant know... Only speculating on this, but I want to believe in it

After car's immaturity comments I started to think that they may be concentrated or will concentrate 2019 very early like brawn GP and earth dream times. Because Toro Rosso has an experience about changing layout and this is their 3d in 3d season. I have readen some articles that says Toro Rosso worked very much on front end of the car for the noose look like mercedes last season. So I was expecting they left front end same and will do all the works at rear. But when we see the car it surprised me that front of car was different and then I read comments that back of car remained same or has not much big difference from last years design. maybe they thought this season for gaining experience for drivers, for Honda development and concentrating 2019 car development very early to do the car and pu in best shape for each other with more powerful PU.
Just an idea. I hope they will do good job this year too

[Marti_EF3]

I think that until european season at Spain starts, they will be strugling at the back due to the delay on chasis development because of the late engine swap. And I think too that the issue on the engine was an isolated one caused by the exclusive Albert Park layout, and the next tracks are better for at least reliabilty. Let's see, but if in Barcelona they were reliable, it's not an illusion, and there is a real improvement on that side.

For the drivers, let's give em some time to adapt to the F1, the engine, tires... I think Gasly have a good base to be good when he adapts to the car and tires...

At least I hope so... Helmut Marko sometimes talk BS, but if he says Honda will be good, is because he've seen something we cant know... Only speculating on this, but I want to believe in it

After car's immaturity comments I started to think that they may be concentrated or will concentrate 2019 very early like brawn GP and earth dream times. Because Toro Rosso has an experience about changing layout and this is their 3d in 3d season. I have readen some articles that says Toro Rosso worked very much on front end of the car for the noose look like mercedes last season. So I was expecting they left front end same and will do all the works at rear. But when we see the car it surprised me that front of car was different and then I read comments that back of car remained same or has not much big difference from last years design. maybe they thought this season for gaining experience for drivers, for Honda development and concentrating 2019 car development very early to do the car and pu in best shape for each other with more powerful PU.
Just an idea. I hope they will do good job this year too

For me, it would be better for Honda, to concentrate on STR and forget about RBR for now... If they focus all efforts to design 2019 car, it may be good enough to fight. And through 2018 concentrate on improving the PU and the drivers... We will see, but I think that choose RBR for next year is a bit... Dangerous, to say something... We've already experienced (Honda fans) what can be dealing with a big team...

[etusch]

I am not talking about Redbull. Talking about Toro Rosso Honda car for 2019

[Marti_EF3]

I am not talking about Redbull. Talking about Toro Rosso Honda car for 2019

Yeah, I know it. It was only my opinion about it. It's my hope they concentrate 100% on 2019 car, and this year develop PU and drivers

[rogazilla]

Looking at what Ferrari could do for HAAS... there is no way they are not thinking of similar for RBR and TR. Some have talked about why didn't RBR just gave TR their chassis from last year, I don't think that would have worked because TR would still have to integrate the PU. However, going forward, that has to come across their mind?

[godlameroso]

I think that until european season at Spain starts, they will be strugling at the back due to the delay on chasis development because of the late engine swap. And I think too that the issue on the engine was an isolated one caused by the exclusive Albert Park layout, and the next tracks are better for at least reliabilty. Let's see, but if in Barcelona they were reliable, it's not an illusion, and there is a real improvement on that side.

For the drivers, let's give em some time to adapt to the F1, the engine, tires... I think Gasly have a good base to be good when he adapts to the car and tires...

At least I hope so... Helmut Marko sometimes talk BS, but if he says Honda will be good, is because he've seen something we cant know... Only speculating on this, but I want to believe in it

After car's immaturity comments I started to think that they may be concentrated or will concentrate 2019 very early like brawn GP and earth dream times. Because Toro Rosso has an experience about changing layout and this is their 3d in 3d season. I have readen some articles that says Toro Rosso worked very much on front end of the car for the noose look like mercedes last season. So I was expecting they left front end same and will do all the works at rear. But when we see the car it surprised me that front of car was different and then I read comments that back of car remained same or has not much big difference from last years design. maybe they thought this season for gaining experience for drivers, for Honda development and concentrating 2019 car development very early to do the car and pu in best shape for each other with more powerful PU.
Just an idea. I hope they will do good job this year too

Wouldn't be a bad one, no one expects Toro Rosso to win the championship, for them points are an achievement, everyone expects Honda to be slow. They can quietly work behind the scenes and develop at their own pace getting real testing mileage.

The biggest problem on the car aerodynamically that I see is that the diffuser and flow structures feeding it need work. There's 2 seconds hiding there, the shapes are the right idea, but the geometry needs refinement. An angle here, a radius there, can easily be worth tenths of a second, so tightening up the body work, and just further refinement of the package will bring big gains. Unfortunately it's very difficult to improve this area of the car, it requires the highest lead times, the suspension, the transmission, the cooling package all have to be considered to open up this area. You can condense all the cooling like Red Bull did, but doing so can easily raise the COG and hurt handling especially with a highly raked car. Red Bull has the money to make it work, Toro Rosso can do the same but it takes them much longer to do so. Mercedes gained a second of aero performance just from incremental evolution of this area.

The bargeboards and leading edge of the floor serves two purposes, to create downforce on it's own(it clearly does), and the lower pressure at the leading edge also promotes more airflow towards the diffuser, but all that extra airmass is no good if the diffuser still has separation issues(Ask Williams).

[godlameroso]

Looking at what Ferrari could do for HAAS... there is no way they are not thinking of similar for RBR and TR. Some have talked about why didn't RBR just gave TR their chassis from last year, I don't think that would have worked because TR would still have to integrate the PU. However, going forward, that has to come across their mind?

TR is it's own team, they get innards of the transmission from Red Bull but they make everything else not supplier provided.