2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

[kasio]

Here we can see, STR was faster than Williams and Sauber, and near Force India average lap times. And that with the extra stops and puncture Hartley had... So not bad at all

http://soymotor.com/sites/default/files ... era_27.png

http://soymotor.com/sites/default/files ... anda_1.png

http://soymotor.com/sites/default/files ... a_2_15.png

Unfortunately statistical approach is most of the time wrong. also this time.
I mean if its about tire degradation.
If You put everything together You need to add every factor contributing to laptimes as well. so it is position, fuel saving if any, damage to car, mistakes... even stint lenth... so it is wrong unless You are able to add that up.

Still thank You for sharing.

[loner]

I don't think Red Bull want TR to be entirely dependent on the primary team. Once STR's primary usefulness expired which was to give Red Bull two votes rather than one, neatly sidestepped by MM IIRC by giving only one vote to one team from each country, the Austrians seem to have been in two minds about keeping them. Certainly I think if someone came along with enough money STR would be sold pretty quickly. There is no intention to make STR significantly more competitive where they might end up taking points off the primary team and it clearly serves a useful function as a selection and training ground for young RB drivers. One could even argue that STR doesn't cost money when you consider that its graduates often move onto the primary team on tiny salaries compared to the guys they are up against like Hamilton and Vettel, saving them a lot of money. This year it is serving another function, to act as a test bed and evaluation platform for Honda.

Ultimately if STR is to be sold it needs to be capable of designing and building its own cars, removing this ability will have serious consequences in the long term. Also Red Bull has no need for the STR to become competitive to assess the Honda. Only fans and those outside the paddock equate STR's performance with that of Honda. Red Bull will have access to the Honda PU's performance to compare to Renault, if not directly from Japan then from STR itself.

well Wazari was dreaming about WCC with Williams in 2019.. and that was more than 2 years ago so Honda knew it when they will challenge for the title.
fortunately for him he will get the best chassis instead.

Unless Honda massively increase their budget they won’t be anywhere near Mercedes or Ferrari in 2019. Still, an excellent Red Bull with a Honda engine on a par with Renault could be in with a chance of winning the title.

IMHO no one will catch Mercedes power wise i imagine before the end of this year Honda will be in a place between powerful than Renault and inferior to Mercedes power wise ..next year RBR chassis will manage the rest...
i also think RBR are working on 2019 car from now .. you just don't send Verstappen to Sakura to eat sushi

[etusch]

Honda choose follow merc 's way on Pu architecture. If they can make it work it is possible

[Marti_EF3]

Here we can see, STR was faster than Williams and Sauber, and near Force India average lap times. And that with the extra stops and puncture Hartley had... So not bad at all

http://soymotor.com/sites/default/files ... era_27.png

http://soymotor.com/sites/default/files ... anda_1.png

http://soymotor.com/sites/default/files ... a_2_15.png

Unfortunately statistical approach is most of the time wrong. also this time.
I mean if its about tire degradation.
If You put everything together You need to add every factor contributing to laptimes as well. so it is position, fuel saving if any, damage to car, mistakes... even stint lenth... so it is wrong unless You are able to add that up.

Still thank You for sharing.

Yes, I know it. But at least you can "show" aproximate data about the full race and the stints... Of course we don't know many variables as real tire wear, fuel saving, kg of fuel at the start of the race, damaged car... My intention was only to show some details that at all isn't that bad for STR

[ArcticWolfie]

Honda choose follow merc 's way on Pu architecture. If they can make it work it is possible

Agreed, I think the current pace is due to a lot of compromises (chassis, drivers, conservative engine mode) at the moment. This is actually Honda's 2nd year with this concept, I know they are lagging behind development in comparison to the years they've been back, but due to the roller coaster ride the past 3 years I can kind of understand that.
They will probably need this year to optimize performance and reliability. While the reliability seemed very decent during the winter tests I hope this is just a minor issue and they can keep focusing in more power.

[Ground Effect]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... k-1019602/

[Thunder18]

Honda choose follow merc 's way on Pu architecture. If they can make it work it is possible

Agreed, I think the current pace is due to a lot of compromises (chassis, drivers, conservative engine mode) at the moment. This is actually Honda's 2nd year with this concept, I know they are lagging behind development in comparison to the years they've been back, but due to the roller coaster ride the past 3 years I can kind of understand that.
They will probably need this year to optimize performance and reliability. While the reliability seemed very decent during the winter tests I hope this is just a minor issue and they can keep focusing in more power.

Honda always stated the goal was to surpass Mercedes and while using similar architecture, Wazari implied there are other technologies being implemented to advance that cause. If they get it right it could possibly be the greatest comeback ever

[McMika98]

There is plenty of room for improvement but the pace in race on reflection wasn't as bad. If u watch Hartley's review on the f1 website, its clear they wanted to run the soft for entire race after his flat tyres. So he must be driving within himself and preserving the tyres until the puncture happened. Dunno how bits fall of the rear must be really fragile.

[Thunder18]

The puncture obviously destroyed parts of the floor meaning he was losing downforce, tv didn't seem to pick it up, I only knew of the puncture from the race reviews afterwards.

[Fulcrum]

Here we can see, STR was faster than Williams and Sauber, and near Force India average lap times. And that with the extra stops and puncture Hartley had... So not bad at all

http://soymotor.com/sites/default/files ... era_27.png

http://soymotor.com/sites/default/files ... anda_1.png

http://soymotor.com/sites/default/files ... a_2_15.png

I think your conclusion is wrong.

Looking at the 1st stint average times, it would appear that Hartley is faster on average than the Saubers and Williams, and relatively close to Force India.

However, this does not account for the following factors:

• Hartley stopped after lap 1 for brand new Soft tyres.

• Hartley was running in clean air for his first stint, while everybody else was in a bunched up fight, likely to be losing downforce, increasing tyre wear.

• Hartley's stint length was shorter than everyone, bar Leclerc.

• Sirotkin, Ericsson and Gasly don't have realistic representation considering they stopped running in the first stint.

In stint 2 Hartley is slower than everybody else by close to 1 second a lap or more, on average, other than Stroll. His closest competitors have all retired by that point. In addition, Hartley's degradation per lap was higher than every other driver, other than Ocon.

More worryingly, compare Hartley's degradation on the Ultra in stint 2 to Alonso's or Vandoorne's degradation on the Ultra in stint 1.

Hartley - 0.183 seconds per lap over 30 laps.
Alonso - 0.129 seconds per lap over 24 laps.
Van Doorne - 0.103 seconds per lap over 23 laps.

Even Vettel who had used Ultras in stint 1 experienced degradation of 0.097 seconds per lap across 24 laps, approximately half that of Hartley.

The Toro Rosso's degradation was about 50% higher on Ultras than most other cars, and in circumstances I would have considered more favourable, given Hartley was running with less additional weight in the car having burned off fuel.

At best I think you can conclude Hartley's pace was similar to Strolls. There is no evidence he was categorically faster than the Williams. In addition, you can't conclude anything relative to Sauber, as both Sauber's stopped running. Leclerc's times suggest Sauber also eat their tyres, but they had similar race pace to Toro Rosso.

There is no way in hell the Toro Rosso is near the Force India's pace, unless you consider 'near' to mean 30-40 seconds slower over a race distance.

[McMika98]

There is no way in hell the Toro Rosso is near the Force India's pace, unless you consider 'near' to mean 30-40 seconds slower over a race distance.

Good try but wrong analysis. Hartleys pace on soft was good considering the fact he was going to run it full distance. He was gaining Leclrec by a second a lap reducing the gap to 15 seconds and then all of a sudden he started to lose seconds few laps before the final Haas pit stop which we now know was a puncture. After that there was nothing to fight for and he lost a lot of downforce. The 30 second gap was down to his rookie error when he did not catch up to the pack during the restart after safety car.
I dont think he even pushed the car while every other car bar the Williams were using full wick at some stages.

[makecry]

There is no way in hell the Toro Rosso is near the Force India's pace, unless you consider 'near' to mean 30-40 seconds slower over a race distance.

Good try but wrong analysis. Hartleys pace on soft was good considering the fact he was going to run it full distance. He was gaining Leclrec by a second a lap reducing the gap to 15 seconds and then all of a sudden he started to lose seconds few laps before the final Haas pit stop which we now know was a puncture. After that there was nothing to fight for and he lost a lot of downforce. The 30 second gap was down to his rookie error when he did not catch up to the pack during the restart after safety car.
I dont think he even pushed the car while every other car bar the Williams were using full wick at some stages.

I would like a source on your claim that every other car apart from Williams were using "full wick" .

[Snorked]

Big update coming in April according to Hartley:

"The team is planning to launch a big update in April and we are looking forward to the next race,"

https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/smart/c ... __split_1/

[Wouter]

Big update coming in April according to Hartley:

"The team is planning to launch a big update in April and we are looking forward to the next race,"

https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/smart/c ... __split_1/

Thanks for the article Snorked.

[dren]

Well, on the bright side the TRs aren't way off the pace of the midfield. There is enough room there to gain a spot or two and score a few points this season.