Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
FightingHellPhish
FightingHellPhish
0
Joined: 10 May 2017, 10:47

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post

J.A.W. wrote:
26 Mar 2018, 08:39
Pressure evac pump AFAIK, but not 'active' PCV - now banned, as such..
are we seriously arguing because we're calling the pump 2 different things? :lol:

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post

No argument, I am categorically stating - they've been there, all along..

(& a discrete pump, if forced-induction pressure-differential utilization - is not allowed)
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

PhillipM
PhillipM
386
Joined: 16 May 2011, 15:18
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post

FightingHellPhish wrote:
26 Mar 2018, 08:35
Not unless they are running a vacuum pump (or like the trick drag racers use and use a one way valve on the exhaust) or.. a pcv system connected to the Intake before the compressor (which is now banned in F1). Windage trays and crank scrapers do a lot for oil control but crank case gasses are still an issue especially with boosted applications. Combustion gasses, heat, and inevitable oil slinging and the like all contribute to it.
The scavenge stages on the oil pump will deal with it, nothing that trick about it, even the car in my shed has that.

63l8qrrfy6
63l8qrrfy6
368
Joined: 17 Feb 2016, 21:36

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post

J.A.W. wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 09:04
FightingHellPhish wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 04:06
J.A.W. wrote:
25 Mar 2018, 00:00


"In the past"?

Seems not.
Q in Melbourne - clearly showed a prominent emission of misty vapours - issuing from the rear of the Ferrari,
when exiting the pit, a technical matter, to be sure..
If you were to disconnect the PCV system on any car and vent to atmo, you would see similar. the issue is larger on forced induction cars.
Doubt it..

1stly, it is highly unlikely that forced induction F1 mills do not run at -ve pressure in the crankcase,
so 'blow-by' as such, which will normally be a sign of malfunctioning/worn-out internal sealing, is out..


Unless of course, it is a deliberate oil-mist consumption mechanism 'breathing' - at a low boost state..

('Blow-by' venting to the slipstream, while racing - has to be a 'probable cause' for a 'black flag' deal, no?)
You are correct about crankcase pressure being lower than atmo.
The blowby/oil mix is being pulled by the scavenge pump, then centrifuged and potentially passed through a catch can before being finally vented out.

Maybe at low engine speeds the centrifugal separator does not spin quick enough to properly remove the oil from the blowby ?

Ring flutter sounds likely too at high engine speed, however it did not seem to smoke excessively while going full beans on track.

User avatar
godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post

Whatever they're doing it's working, Ferrari teams had the least loss of speed. This year it's obvious the cars have more downforce, thus more drag, now perhaps Ferrari itself made a modest downforce improvement which is why it only lost 1.2kmh at the speed trap vs last year where others like Mercedes lost almost 7kmh and was 3kmh slower than Ferrari.

Image

It seems the power units of Ferrari and Mercedes are closer than ever.
Saishū kōnā

johnny comelately
johnny comelately
110
Joined: 10 Apr 2015, 00:55
Location: Australia

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post

Would the nasty little person who took away one of my 3 gold stars like to put their hand up and explain why.
It's like trench warfare sometimes and I was very proud of them :wink:

ripper
ripper
39
Joined: 26 Aug 2015, 22:19

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post

One of the reason might be a lower drag approach on this year car, maybe they paid it with less overall downforce (or lower increase in downforce from '17 to '18) but a better downforce/drag ratio

ferkan
ferkan
31
Joined: 06 Apr 2015, 20:50

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post

Perhaps, but I doubt HAAS and Sauber are low drag cars compared to customer Merc teams.

sosic2121
sosic2121
13
Joined: 08 Jun 2016, 12:14

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post

godlameroso wrote:
27 Mar 2018, 01:51
Whatever they're doing it's working, Ferrari teams had the least loss of speed. This year it's obvious the cars have more downforce, thus more drag, now perhaps Ferrari itself made a modest downforce improvement which is why it only lost 1.2kmh at the speed trap vs last year where others like Mercedes lost almost 7kmh and was 3kmh slower than Ferrari.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZN4RrLV4AIbPfZ.jpg

It seems the power units of Ferrari and Mercedes are closer than ever.
Very interesting.
Is this from Q or from race?

ripper
ripper
39
Joined: 26 Aug 2015, 22:19

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post

Sauber should be taken out from equation, because last year they were using 2016 engine so we are confronting 2016 engine with 2018 one.

About HAAS let's say that I wouldn't be surprised if they followed very closely Ferrari's approach

User avatar
godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post

ripper wrote:
29 Mar 2018, 15:45
Sauber should be taken out from equation, because last year they were using 2016 engine so we are confronting 2016 engine with 2018 one.

About HAAS let's say that I wouldn't be surprised if they followed very closely Ferrari's approach
Haas clearly has more downforce than last year, the power of the Ferrari engine hasn't changed much since last year it's just more reliable. So a 5kmh loss of speed is purely down to drag in my opinion, of course I could be wrong.
Saishū kōnā

User avatar
godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post

sosic2121 wrote:
29 Mar 2018, 15:26
godlameroso wrote:
27 Mar 2018, 01:51
Whatever they're doing it's working, Ferrari teams had the least loss of speed. This year it's obvious the cars have more downforce, thus more drag, now perhaps Ferrari itself made a modest downforce improvement which is why it only lost 1.2kmh at the speed trap vs last year where others like Mercedes lost almost 7kmh and was 3kmh slower than Ferrari.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZN4RrLV4AIbPfZ.jpg

It seems the power units of Ferrari and Mercedes are closer than ever.
Very interesting.
Is this from Q or from race?
Qualifying.
Saishū kōnā

User avatar
MtthsMlw
1036
Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 18:38
Location: Germany

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post

AMuS:
In Bahrain, Mercedes spotters have heard that the Ferrari engine in the cars of Sebastian Vettel and Kimi Raikkonen significantly changes the pitch when accelerating. Also in comparison to the customer teams HaasF1 and Sauber.

It didn't take long to solve the puzzle. In the qualifying rounds, Ferrari doesn't use the MGU-H to generate electricity when accelerating out, in order to blow the rear wing via the wastegate valve. That makes a few points of downforce, but better than nothing. In the qualifying rounds it is not a problem not to charge the battery, because it is full to the brim at the beginning of the round anyway.

PhillipM
PhillipM
386
Joined: 16 May 2011, 15:18
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post

That seems like rubbish, everyone is opening the 'gates in qualifying as much as they can anyway and using battery to keep the MGU-H spinning.

User avatar
godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Ferrari Power Unit

Post

Even with wastegates wide open the turbine is still getting energy.
Saishū kōnā