New Teams in F1 for 2010??!

[Alexpcenteno]

Toro Rosso is going to be sell, well at least half of the team. Do you guys think that somebody will join Berger?? They are saying Lancia is in talk with the german. There is also a interest by Porsche but they do not get alogn with Mosley...

And for the Japanese fans there is also Super Aguri... is somebody going to buy the team??

Let's see the manufactures that are capable of starting a team in F1:

1 - VW or Audi or Bugatti or Lamborghini (same group)
2 - Citroen or Peugeot - PSA Group is now the secound biggest manufacturer in Europe and they have to compete with renault!
3 - Hyundai - super rich group that could easily spend as much money as a small country in F1
4 - Lancia - Belongs to FIAT... Ferrari
5 - Nissan
6 - Subaru - kind of owned by Toyota

OBS - None american manufactures in the list cause amercians are all eyes for nascar... well... if thats real racing...

Anyway there is only room for two new teams and a slot from late Aguri and there is the Toro Rosso issue... wich would I guess:

Toro Rosso - Lancia
xxxxxxxxxxx - Porsche
Super Aguri - Peugeot
xxxxxxxxxxx - VW or Audi or Bugatti or Lambo!!

OBS: I'm a F1 fan and as so I would love to see many teams but not just car manufacture's teams... but we have to be realistics.

sorry for my bad english. I am from Brazil.

[warmandog]

well.
i would love to see a take over from a car maker for these two teams.
toro-roso lancia. this would be the must possible
Super Aguri. Hiunday would be good.


but the must i want is to see formula1 forever

regards

Alex C.

[Belatti]

As you said, Lancia belongs to FIAT, so that would be a Ferrari B team.

Nissan belongs to Renault as Subaru "kind" to Toyota, but its not likely those two guys would want to get involved in B teams.

Hyundai... I don´t know

Peugeot abandoned after Prost failure and maybe they should think about returning, they were great in Rally, LeMans, Hill climbing but never made it in F1.
BTW, Peugeot is the french manufacturer I like the most, Renault cars have nothing to do against them. (believe me, I have squeezed Peugeots 504, 505, 306, 307, 206 and 106 and Renaults 6, 11, 9, 18, 19, 21, 5 -love that one-, Megane, Twingo and Clio so I have some formed opinion)

I would also love to see VW, Audi in F1 (more likely to see that brands rather than Bugatti or Lambo)

Regarding American Manufacturers, Ford its a legend in F1, but after Jaguar failure and their financial difficulties I don´t expect to see them in the short term. Chevrolet was never even close to F1, the only way it could get close is with Opel brand, very very unlikely. Chrysler was involved when it owned Lambo in the 90´s but was a failure too, probably due to a very heavy engine (that I would like to know what should happen if it was mounted in a 1993 McLaren with Senna driving it). Then, after the split with Mercedes, dont expect those guys to be close to F1 anymore.

[Alexpcenteno]

Belatti imagine the amount of technological data the guys form VW have gain by building the Veyron!

And I belive if they join F1 they will be a very competitive team!

[Belatti]

Believe it or not, building a Veyron and a F1 has absolutely nothing to do with each other.

[Alexpcenteno]

Well living and learning buddy... hehehehe

You are the pro here so what you say is ok for me!

best regards

[WhiteBlue]

Gerhard has categorically denied that there is anything to the STR/Lancia rumor. He is a very honest man. I believe what he says.

Porsche/VW group is controled by Ferdinad Piech. He is on record that F1 is much too expensive. I believe that VW probably needs to get F1 close to zero cost or at a profit for him to get involved. As the BMW and Renault example shows you can't run an F1 team currently without incurring substantial cost. Even Ferrari can't do it without subsidy from the road cars and they have the best brand equity in selling F1 sponsorship. I don't want to talk about Toyota, Honda and Mercedes as brands having thrown silly money at F1. that is self evident.

[Belatti]

Well, I feel pro is too much for me

You may find some things in common like some compound materials, but for example:

The design of the engine: completely different concepts
- The Veyron has got a couple of 4L V8´s "bolted together" to form a W16 8L engine, with a bore of 86mm and stroke of 86mm, that engine is "square" and very very "torqui", max. engine speed "only" 6500rpm and its turbocharged. Because of the torque, the gearbox is different, too. That engine should last more than 100,000 km. (125bhp/litre)
- An F1 has got a 2.4L V8 with a bore of 98mm and stroke arround 40mm. That engine is "supersquare" to allow 20,000rpm+ (restricted to "only" 19,000) but relatively low torque, wich allows a light and small gearbox, there is no turbo and the engine lasts 700km. (300bhp/litre)

Aerodynamics: totally different, Veyron has movable aero devices, covered wheels, etc.

Weight: 2040kg vs. <500Kg + driver and ballast

Tires: totally different temp. working ranges, tyre construction, rubber compounds, durability, etc

Chasis: Veyron has aluminum panels over carbon fibre monocoque w/Aluminum front subframe and a hybrid carbon/stainless steel rear subframe. In a F1 chassis, the word "steel" is like an insult.

Brakes: ceramics rotors vs Carbon rotors

Suspension: Veyron can adjust ride height (and probably damping) geometry is different and of course stiffnes is appropiate to handle some street bumps, something that would make an F1 brake into pieces, even at low speeds.

So, as far as I can see, there is no much things a race engineer can learn from a Veyron to apply to F1. Hope that clarifies my previous short post

[donskar]

Aged and infirm F1 fans (like myself ) will recall that Subaru had an F1 adventure long ago and it was a Titanic disaster. Toyota owns a small minority interest in Subaru. The major shareholder is Fuji Heavy Industries and THEY have the money to do F1. (But why?)

Hyundai is fast becoming a VERY major manufacturer. Toyota considers them Toyota's #1 near-future competitor.

OR, why not another rich man or non-automotive company?

[WhiteBlue]

Belatti =D> =D> =D>

given the current world economic climate and the ability to control cost in F1 I have low expectations towards an increasing number of F1 teams.

there are very strong economic forces at work that want to shut out competition on the team side. of course tracks can compete for silly race fees as much as they want.

teams tend to not make money from racing because they are mainly concerned with winning. the commercial PTB regards them worthy of protection from competition by outsiders because they are no competitors for internal economic powers in motor racing.

before the constructors formed a cartell with the commercial rights holder the track bosses used to hold the power in F1. The situation was reflected in the low cost of producing a race car and the high cost of building a race track. Concord cartell changed all that and as all catells it is avers to external comnpetition. by using cartell power over TV and track companies the constructors have jacked up their budgets and the CRH has filled his pockets.

strategically FOM still needs the constructors to exploit their business modell. they will continue to protect the constructors interests to secure their support.

at least thats how it looks to me

[Alexpcenteno]

Is an amazing machine the Veyron isn't it.

About the car manufactures and the money they spent in F1 and VW not wanting to loose money... well I belive that Ferrari is a legend but I doubt that they would be selling like they are if it wasen't for F1... I know they are like what everybody wants in a car and bla bla bla... but F1 is good for visibility specially now that are 3 teams in good shape and that Alonso (the actual best)and Hamilton last year and sometimes in order to be visible you have to spend some money... is like they say here in Brazil... the propaganda is the soul of the business...

So what I want to say is that for the VW group wich owns porsche should consider the F1 like a good visibility or propaganda...

But it's obivious that F1 is too much way beyond normal expensive. So place some limits... or there is going to be a day where we see 3 teams on the circuit cause F1 is too expensive... Like VW already said that is not going to join in a sport that does not give profits!!!

Like Hyundai they don't get that much attention from the world so going to F1 would be propaganda... just like happened to Spyker... most people didn't know Spyker Cars and now they do...

[WhiteBlue]

...So what I want to say is that for the VW group wich owns porsche should consider the F1 like a good visibility or propaganda.....

actually Porsche controls VW.

[majicmeow]

I would love to see Mazda get involved with F1, but I highly doubt Ford (the parent company) would allow it.

No company in Japan has as much enthusiasm for racing as Mazda. I think they would do very very well if they signed on. They simply have the passion that Toyota lacks and the experience in top tier racing that Honda lacks (IMHO).

Having a VW/Audi/Lambo team would also be fantastic. Audi in particular is VERY involved with Lemans, so they are already fairly established in the infastructure department.

The American manufactures could care less about F1. They make so much money in NASCAR.

[modbaraban]

As far as I can remember a couple of years ago Hyundai officially claimed the plans of entering F1 in 2009!
I would love to see Porsche in F1 and Mazda too. And what about Jaguar? Ta...ta...ta... *sigh*

[WhiteBlue]

As far as I can remember a couple of years ago Hyundai officially claimed the plans of entering F1 in 2009!
I would love to see Porsche in F1 and Mazda too. And what about Jaguar? Ta...ta...ta... *sigh*

and Niki Lauda as Team Principal?