2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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henry wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 10:35
johnny comelately wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 09:35
henry wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 09:25


We’ve discussed the effect on compressor inertia, or at least the whole assembly. Depending on what you think the compressor power is the split second (20 millisecond) might reduce the speed by 5% when you need it to go up to maintain constant lambda. Whether that is significant I don’t know, but it has to happen.
what about the role of the plenum?
Good point, The objective, to maintain lambda on upshift, would be to do everything possible to increase pressure, so maybe they close the throttles. On downshift they might dump from the plenum to the compressor intake.

I don’t know. What do you think?
I dont.
This mini subject feels like a trip to Canadia via Jo'burg :wink:
I emailed the FIA to get clarification re pop-off valve, so 2020 I can tell you.
makes sense to dump in plenum like an oil pump relief.

johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Joined: 10 Apr 2015, 00:55
Location: Australia

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

henry wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 10:35
johnny comelately wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 09:35
henry wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 09:25


We’ve discussed the effect on compressor inertia, or at least the whole assembly. Depending on what you think the compressor power is the split second (20 millisecond) might reduce the speed by 5% when you need it to go up to maintain constant lambda. Whether that is significant I don’t know, but it has to happen.
what about the role of the plenum?
Good point, The objective, to maintain lambda on upshift, would be to do everything possible to increase pressure, so maybe they close the throttles. On downshift they might dump from the plenum to the compressor intake.

I don’t know. What do you think?
Close the throttle !!!???...am I misssing something here???

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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henry wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 10:37
godlameroso wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 05:43
The turbo also harvests electrical energy?
A pedant wouldn’t say so.

What usage condition are you referring to?
Turbo-machinery function vis a vis the electrickery drive - generating, or parasiting - power?
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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johnny comelately wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 10:42
henry wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 10:35
johnny comelately wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 09:35


what about the role of the plenum?
Good point, The objective, to maintain lambda on upshift, would be to do everything possible to increase pressure, so maybe they close the throttles. On downshift they might dump from the plenum to the compressor intake.

I don’t know. What do you think?
Close the throttle !!!???...am I misssing something here???
Perhaps by 'close the throttle' Henry means a split second 'flutter' - to create a (useful?) pressure pulse..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

johnny comelately
johnny comelately
110
Joined: 10 Apr 2015, 00:55
Location: Australia

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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J.A.W. wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 10:52
johnny comelately wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 10:42
henry wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 10:35


Good point, The objective, to maintain lambda on upshift, would be to do everything possible to increase pressure, so maybe they close the throttles. On downshift they might dump from the plenum to the compressor intake.

I don’t know. What do you think?
Close the throttle !!!???...am I misssing something here???
Perhaps by 'close the throttle' Henry means a split second 'flutter' - to create a (useful?) pressure pulse..
I got nothing (to this psychodelica stuff) :wink:

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
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Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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But Johhny, you do know how an energised gas column can be used to move things.. in a gun, or a 2T pipe..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

johnny comelately
johnny comelately
110
Joined: 10 Apr 2015, 00:55
Location: Australia

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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J.A.W. wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 11:06
But Johhny, you do know how an energised gas column can be used to move things.. in a gun, or a 2T pipe..
yep, just cant connect these particular dots. looking forward to class though.
might be an idea to discuss the best spud gun stories....

johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Joined: 10 Apr 2015, 00:55
Location: Australia

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Are there humidity sensors used on these engines?
Does anyone know the layout of the sensors for temp, maf (what type?), map etc and who supplies them?

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godlameroso
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Location: Miami FL

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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I'm sure more data is more better. The trick I guess is avoiding the downsides to the different sensor types, and more importantly getting them all to communicate, with the goal being higher resolution as a whole while accounting for all the different parameters. One could argue that MAP sensor with good tuning is more than sufficient, and it is for your average tin can Flintstone mobile. There's just too many parameters that need to be just right to get the most out of your fire cocktail that you'd essentially be chopping your legs off going the simple route.
Saishū kōnā

wuzak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2011, 03:26

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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johnny comelately wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 10:40
henry wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 10:35
johnny comelately wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 09:35


what about the role of the plenum?
Good point, The objective, to maintain lambda on upshift, would be to do everything possible to increase pressure, so maybe they close the throttles. On downshift they might dump from the plenum to the compressor intake.

I don’t know. What do you think?
I dont.
This mini subject feels like a trip to Canadia via Jo'burg :wink:
I emailed the FIA to get clarification re pop-off valve, so 2020 I can tell you.
makes sense to dump in plenum like an oil pump relief.
Surely any pop-off valve dumps into the exhaust?

If it goes into the plenum, the whole purpose of the pop-off valve is defeated.

hurril
hurril
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Joined: 07 Oct 2014, 13:02

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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wuzak wrote:
08 Apr 2018, 02:25
johnny comelately wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 10:40
henry wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 10:35


Good point, The objective, to maintain lambda on upshift, would be to do everything possible to increase pressure, so maybe they close the throttles. On downshift they might dump from the plenum to the compressor intake.

I don’t know. What do you think?
I dont.
This mini subject feels like a trip to Canadia via Jo'burg :wink:
I emailed the FIA to get clarification re pop-off valve, so 2020 I can tell you.
makes sense to dump in plenum like an oil pump relief.
Surely any pop-off valve dumps into the exhaust?

If it goes into the plenum, the whole purpose of the pop-off valve is defeated.
It goes in the airbox.

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henry
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Joined: 23 Feb 2004, 20:49
Location: England

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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wuzak wrote:
08 Apr 2018, 02:25
johnny comelately wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 10:40
henry wrote:
05 Apr 2018, 10:35


Good point, The objective, to maintain lambda on upshift, would be to do everything possible to increase pressure, so maybe they close the throttles. On downshift they might dump from the plenum to the compressor intake.

I don’t know. What do you think?
I dont.
This mini subject feels like a trip to Canadia via Jo'burg :wink:
I emailed the FIA to get clarification re pop-off valve, so 2020 I can tell you.
makes sense to dump in plenum like an oil pump relief.
Surely any pop-off valve dumps into the exhaust?

If it goes into the plenum, the whole purpose of the pop-off valve is defeated.
I think you misread, I said “out of” not “into”. From high pressure to low.
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Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

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godlameroso
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Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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I wonder if it's possible to combine a map sensor that also has the function of an AF sensor/humidity/temp/etc sensor. From the looks of it Renault has such an assembly integrated into their VLIM system. Sensors and the type used are incredibly important especially from an engine performance stand point, and no one seems to care about boring ol' sensors. Pressure sensors in the cylinders, probably integrated in the injectors and spark plug/flame chamber. Without these sensors your injectors are whizzing in the dark.
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Xwang
Xwang
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Joined: 02 Dec 2012, 11:12

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Is it possible to use oil to moisten the air filter?

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godlameroso
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Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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What about exhaust sensors, do they only use a wideband O2 sensor? Do they try to sense other exhaust products? NOx tuning?
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