2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

[techman]

honda joining forces with TR is in the best interest of honda. they dont have to design their engine to specific restrictions and TR are willing to listen and we can see the performance from TR while the their previous team is getting exposed for running heavy drag , which they did for so many years hiding behind the engine.

[ivanlesk]

Didn't McLaren drag TR into this last year by sarcastically saying good luck with Honda PU when the switch was announced.

Maybe TR is taking jabs at McLaren because they feel they got jobbed by Renault at the end of last year (provoking Renault might not be a good idea due to RB). I wonder if some of that is coming into play. Both TR and Honda feel that they got the raw end of the deal in their relationships (right or wrong is not the point of this post) and I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

As I tried to say, TR was dragged into and then instead of taking high ground and ignore those things, they responded. IMHO they can't win this, in the end if McLaren "wins" this year TR will partially take hit (and we can't honestly blame them for nothing) and if Honda "wins", winner will actually be RB not TR. (but that just my personal opinion).

Especially I didn't like those comments with drivers, Hartley is older and don't mind his comments that much (TR/RB is his probably last chance in F1) but Gastly shouldn't be poking (especially as a rookie) other teams, drivers, EMs etc. That won't do him any good.
Head down and work work work and show his potential. 2021 is around corner, and young drivers could benefit the most with right choice.And not having choice could be problem.

[restless]

One can't become F1 driver being shy.
And there is no bad marketing.

[ivanlesk]

One can't become F1 driver being shy.
And there is no bad marketing.

He doesn't be shy. But he wasn't last year on grid, and making comments about something after one god race... I don't like it. I like him as driver and hopefully he will focus more on his job not this PR "nonsense".

[1158]

As I tried to say, TR was dragged into and then instead of taking high ground and ignore those things, they responded. IMHO they can't win this, in the end if McLaren "wins" this year TR will partially take hit (and we can't honestly blame them for nothing) and if Honda "wins", winner will actually be RB not TR. (but that just my personal opinion).

Especially I didn't like those comments with drivers, Hartley is older and don't mind his comments that much (TR/RB is his probably last chance in F1) but Gastly shouldn't be poking (especially as a rookie) other teams, drivers, EMs etc. That won't do him any good.
Head down and work work work and show his potential. 2021 is around corner, and young drivers could benefit the most with right choice.And not having choice could be problem.

I mostly agree with the head down and work, but I can understand little slips now and then. I'm not really defending it, but I can understand that you can only take so much before turning the other cheek becomes impossible. I honestly think GAS remark at the end of the race was a blurt vs a well thought out barb.

I am glad that for the most part TR and Honda have tried to shy away from lots of "yapping". I like how the article about Honda from Motorsport quoted previously makes no mention of the past in a negative light. Do the job that needs to be done and let the results speak. I also think reporters need to stop asking ALO this and ALO that and then running back to TR and seeing what they have to say. It's a lot like the HAM comment about Max and then the press trying to stir that up. The quote earlier by Marko made me wince a bit too.

I'm happy TR and Honda are moving forward, but it's 1 great race after a disaster of a race (for many reasons). Let's see how they are doing mid-season. I don't care if they beat McLaren, I just want them to be in the midfield battle.

[Stef]

Didn't McLaren drag TR into this last year by sarcastically saying good luck with Honda PU when the switch was announced.

Maybe TR is taking jabs at McLaren because they feel they got jobbed by Renault at the end of last year (provoking Renault might not be a good idea due to RB). I wonder if some of that is coming into play. Both TR and Honda feel that they got the raw end of the deal in their relationships (right or wrong is not the point of this post) and I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

As I tried to say, TR was dragged into and then instead of taking high ground and ignore those things, they responded. IMHO they can't win this, in the end if McLaren "wins" this year TR will partially take hit (and we can't honestly blame them for nothing) and if Honda "wins", winner will actually be RB not TR. (but that just my personal opinion).

Especially I didn't like those comments with drivers, Hartley is older and don't mind his comments that much (TR/RB is his probably last chance in F1) but Gastly shouldn't be poking (especially as a rookie) other teams, drivers, EMs etc. That won't do him any good.
Head down and work work work and show his potential. 2021 is around corner, and young drivers could benefit the most with right choice.And not having choice could be problem.

That's exactly why we have PR bots.

[Ground Effect]

I am extremely anti Honda v Mclaren discussions, I feel they achieve nothing and distracts from the important things and because most of it is speculation. But I've got to say, the worst things Mclaren said about Honda and the way they treated them pale in comparison with the way RB treated Renault, this same RB management. It was humiliating for Renault, a partnership that won 8 titles in recent times and still managed a few wins at the start of the hybrid era. This same RB cancelled a contract without getting an alternative first, essentially kicking Renault out of the sport, which spurred them to return as a constructor. Very unlike how the Mclaren Honda split played out, ensuring there was a route for them to continue . Same RB have been saying its only the engine holding them back, just like Mclaren (except they're right ), they never hesitate to make this known. This same RB that Renault insisted on a no insults clause in further contracts. Same RB that rebadged the engine, to give Renault less credit.
The harshest words from Mclaren have come from Fernando, during Grand Prix races, under the cloud of adrenaline. The worst remarks from RB came from their management, Marko, Christian etc. Eric and Zak never called Honda liars or useless or an embarrassment.
The harsh words from Mclaren didn't come till year 3, RB's assault started almost immediately and climaxed in year 2. I don't know whether anybody remembers, but before preseason of 2017, Fernando said Honda would be the LEAST of Mclaren's concerns for 2017, that he had more concerns about the design team getting the new aerodynamics philosophy right and had more faith in Honda to deliver a good engine.
Mclaren and Honda managed to negotiate a deal with Sauber with Monish, during the 2017 season to help development, or at the very least, ensure Honda remained in the sport, till Fred cancelled the deal.
The point is, we go on about how Mclaren treated Honda, RB management did same to Renault and much worse. In other words, it's very likely any team would do same with their works partner.
Like I've said before, I'm a Toro Rosso fan, since they were Minardi days and I want them to do well, now they're with Honda, I'm rooting for the partnership. But let nobody be under any illusion about how toxic RB management can get if they're not getting what they want.

[Zynerji]

As was pointed out earlier in this thread, Honda is "sponsoring" part of the chassis development with an undisclosed sum. I must say, that after the HUGE performance increase from a self-admitted "small" aero update, Honda might see this as a big underdog opportunity. If Honda know that Engine 2-3 is going to be a large power/deployment increase over the current spec, I can see them sending a few more Million$ to James Key to see how much more he can squeeze out of the chassis in 2018. If this Works partnership is a guarantee for 2019, Honda might just see this as the right time to invest heavily on the 2019 chassis while generating updates to the 2018 package.

STR is now confirmed as the Dark Horse for 2018. A 30hp jump in Canada with a few more aero updates might put them up amongst the leading 3 teams. I'm not sure how RBR would handle direct, on-track scrapping with STR, but lets see...

ALSO: Does anyone else think that Verstappen may just pull a Kvyat for Barcelona? I think if Max has an avoidable issue in China, that we may see Gasly in the RBR for Spain. Actually, its looking that if STR have a car to really push at the front, it would be in RBR/STR's best interest to put a top driver in each team anyway, just to push the Merc/Ferrari power duo...

[Marti_EF3]

I am extremely anti Honda v Mclaren discussions, I feel they achieve nothing and distracts from the important things and because most of it is speculation. But I've got to say, the worst things Mclaren said about Honda and the way they treated them pale in comparison with the way RB treated Renault, this same RB management. It was humiliating for Renault, a partnership that won 8 titles in recent times and still managed a few wins at the start of the hybrid era. This same RB cancelled a contract without getting an alternative first, essentially kicking Renault out of the sport, which spurred them to return as a constructor. Very unlike how the Mclaren Honda split played out, ensuring there was a route for them to continue . Same RB have been saying its only the engine holding them back, just like Mclaren (except they're right ), they never hesitate to make this known. This same RB that Renault insisted on a no insults clause in further contracts. Same RB that rebadged the engine, to give Renault less credit.
The harshest words from Mclaren have come from Fernando, during Grand Prix races, under the cloud of adrenaline. The worst remarks from RB came from their management, Marko, Christian etc. Eric and Zak never called Honda liars or useless or an embarrassment.
The harsh words from Mclaren didn't come till year 3, RB's assault started almost immediately and climaxed in year 2. I don't know whether anybody remembers, but before preseason of 2017, Fernando said Honda would be the LEAST of Mclaren's concerns for 2017, that he had more concerns about the design team getting the new aerodynamics philosophy right and had more faith in Honda to deliver a good engine.
Mclaren and Honda managed to negotiate a deal with Sauber with Monish, during the 2017 season to help development, or at the very least, ensure Honda remained in the sport, till Fred cancelled the deal.
The point is, we go on about how Mclaren treated Honda, RB management did same to Renault and much worse. In other words, it's very likely any team would do same with their works partner.
Like I've said before, I'm a Toro Rosso fan, since they were Minardi days and I want them to do well, now they're with Honda, I'm rooting for the partnership. But let nobody be under any illusion about how toxic RB management can get if they're not getting what they want.

That's why I want a 2019 season only with TR that with both. RBR can be a lot more toxic than Mclaren was...

[dren]

STR is now confirmed as the dark horse for 2018. A 30hp jump in Canada with a few more aero updates might put them up amongst the leading 3 teams. I'm not sure how RBR would handle direct, on-track scrapping with STR, but lets see...

I think that's a very long stretch. The added PU performance will help, but it won't magically grant them more than half a second in lap time.

[Zynerji]

STR is now confirmed as the dark horse for 2018. A 30hp jump in Canada with a few more aero updates might put them up amongst the leading 3 teams. I'm not sure how RBR would handle direct, on-track scrapping with STR, but lets see...

I think that's a very long stretch. The added PU performance will help, but it won't magically grant them more than half a second in lap time.

Well, they picked up a second with the "small" Bahrain update. If Honda feel this is working, and they are now tasting success after the last 3 years of failure, the money flow to the chassis department at STR could be immediate, and exceptionally large. If Spec3 engine comes for Suzuka, and they invest another 100M today, they could realistically have a B-Chassis to launch along side it with a complete aero update. It all depends on how the STR/Honda contract mutates if RBR pick up Honda branded engines (instead of TAG branded Honda engines), and if Honda are yet convinced that STR can deliver what McLaren could not.

[Maritimer]

F1 is a competition, jabbing should be expected regardless of how "professional" we like to kid ourselves things are. Let's not neuter things more than they already are.

[zoroastar]

STR is now confirmed as the dark horse for 2018. A 30hp jump in Canada with a few more aero updates might put them up amongst the leading 3 teams. I'm not sure how RBR would handle direct, on-track scrapping with STR, but lets see...

I think that's a very long stretch. The added PU performance will help, but it won't magically grant them more than half a second in lap time.

Well, they picked up a second with the "small" Bahrain update. If Honda feel this is working, and they are now tasting success after the last 3 years of failure, the money flow to the chassis department at STR could be immediate, and exceptionally large. If Spec3 engine comes for Suzuka, and they invest another 100M today, they could realistically have a B-Chassis to launch along side it with a complete aero update. It all depends on how the STR/Honda contract mutates if RBR pick up Honda branded engines (instead of TAG branded Honda engines), and if Honda are yet convinced that STR can deliver what McLaren could not.

bahrain isnt your typical track, and may have been the perfect spot for a very low drag car to over perform. give it a few more races before putting any midfield team up there. one race doesnt make or break anybody.

[Big Tea]

As was pointed out earlier in this thread, Honda is "sponsoring" part of the chassis development with an undisclosed sum. I must say, that after the HUGE performance increase from a self-admitted "small" aero update, Honda might see this as a big underdog opportunity. If Honda know that Engine 2-3 is going to be a large power/deployment increase over the current spec, I can see them sending a few more Million$ to James Key to see how much more he can squeeze out of the chassis in 2018. If this Works partnership is a guarantee for 2019, Honda might just see this as the right time to invest heavily on the 2019 chassis while generating updates to the 2018 package.

STR is now confirmed as the Dark Horse for 2018. A 30hp jump in Canada with a few more aero updates might put them up amongst the leading 3 teams. I'm not sure how RBR would handle direct, on-track scrapping with STR, but lets see...

ALSO: Does anyone else think that Verstappen may just pull a Kvyat for Barcelona? I think if Max has an avoidable issue in China, that we may see Gasly in the RBR for Spain. Actually, its looking that if STR have a car to really push at the front, it would be in RBR/STR's best interest to put a top driver in each team anyway, just to push the Merc/Ferrari power duo...

No. Verstappen is a camera magnet. All the channels want to interview him and he always does or says something to get his ( and RB ) name mentioned.

He is a 'poster boy' for them.

[sandrosm]

Toro Rosso is only gaining personality. Everyone says they like Toro Rosso but it's almost no one's favourite because it's only seen as a development team/young drivers school living in the shadow of RB. Everyone thinks of them as a "nice" team, so to say.

At least now they are being talked about and are expressing their feelings while getting TV and media coverage in general! Plus it's in their interest to defend their "business" partner..