2018 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, April 6-8

[ThumbsUp]

Funny thing is, Lewis and Max both Said sorry to each other and shook hands.. at least the both know they could avoided the crash. Now you guys shake hands and say sorry!

[dans79]

I actually do agree that at the point of the picture it would have been much more clear-cut if Max was already in front there, but a fraction later he already is (see my super slomo) and you can clearly see Hamilton also making an extra steering move, a sharp one, that is also a fact. That is why it is a racing incident only, Max was not so far in front (the moment of your pic is already well into the corner) that you can say Lewis had no right to do that, or vice versa, the move was controlled enough (from Max) not to warrant a penalty.

Lewis turning back in, is him trying to ensure he stays on the track. Even with his turn you can see that his front left tire is on the line. This is something he is entitled to do under the rules. This is why a push or a squeeze is an iffy proposition for the car doing an overtake when the rules are strictly adhered to. If the car behind doesn't back out (and they aren't required to under the rules). Then the overtaking car needs to make sure he leaves enough room and they don't collide. If not he could receive a penalty for Forcing another car off the track (Nico on Max in Germany 2016), or he could receive a penalty for causing a collision.

[dans79]

So did race control (disagree with Dans79)

That's what they do when you screw up and then DNF 2 laps later. The FIA usually considers the DNF penalty enough!

[Phil]

I wouldn't say I am very knowledgable onracing as a whole, half check.

That's the problem right there. Most people discussing in here probably aren't, yet alone have ever been on a track or found themselves in a comparable situation.

E.g. Pointing at a screen grap and making a point about steering lock is pretty pointless. Of course he [Hamilton] was turning in aggressively. He had to. He was on the outside of that corner but was taking a steeper line into it. The car was also traveling in excess of ~20 meters per second, while gauging exactly what was going around him, what Max was doing etc.

It's very obvious that Hamilton backed out - in fact, he said so in a post race interview for those where the on-board footage isn't obvious enough. As for Max cutting across the track - some of you should watch the on-board footage of any driver during qualifying driving T1 and T2. The ideal racing line doesn't lead to the edge of the track between those two corners.

Anyway, Max pretty much admitted in the Chinese drivers conference that he tried to be aggressive (pointing to similarities of Mexico last year) saying that sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Evidently, it didn't work this time. Hamilton was also aggressive and didn't give up easily. As they were going through T1, Max had Alonso in front of him but instead of lifting to avoid crashing into the back of Alonso, he went deep into the corner to avoid Alonso instead. Hamilton who at that point was side by side (and being squeezed), started to back out, first of all to avoid contact but also to get a better line into T2 (there's no point in following the edge of the track), but Max continued to cut across to the edge of the track which is when they collided.

[Danlizzyman]

I usually enjoy battles between the top drivers, but wow, maybe not anymore if this is what it does to one of my favourite online technical forums! This race thread has been mangled beyond recognition, any admins on here??

[GPR-A duplicate2]

That's the problem right there. Most people discussing in here probably aren't, yet alone have ever been on a track or found themselves in a comparable situation.

E.g. Pointing at a screen grap and making a point about steering lock is pretty pointless. Of course he [Hamilton] was turning in aggressively. He had to. He was on the outside of that corner but was taking a steeper line into it. The car was also traveling in excess of ~20 meters per second, while gauging exactly what was going around him, what Max was doing etc.

Sorry phil, but that whole statement is like an oxymoron! I have highlighted the two parts.

If it was all about being experienced in a racing car and being there in the car to make arguments over the internet forums, then all these Internet forums should shut down. Honestly, with the kind of technology available in the video coverage with 90fps on board, it's not such a rocket science either to understand what a driver is doing with that steering. Especially, if you have played with the kind of high definition, close to real video games available, where technology lets you drive the racing car in those games like for real, you can easily feel what is the steering inputs that are required to turn in.

This is just an example!

[JonoNic]

Here's a 360° camara view of the Hamilton Verstappen clash from Max's car.

https://youtu.be/RbuuR1N8McY

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Phil]

@GPR-A

I guess i should have worded it more carefully. My point is that pointing to a singular intance in time (a screenshot showing a steering lock/angle to make a point) is absurd.

What gets lost in screen grabs are the actual speeds of the car and how the situation is dynamically evolving and changing.

Even so, the steering lock is fairly logical when considering the position of the car, the velocity, the outline of the track. There was no malicious intent behind it and certainly no point in looking for a potential collision. There was a strategic sense in staying side by side to a certain point (because of Alonso being in front of Max) and assuming Hamilton could have maintained a slight lead into the corner, he might have been at a good position to regain the position fully into T2. That however didnt happen, the situation evolved differently.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

@GPR-A

I guess i should have worded it more carefully. My point is that pointing to a singular intance in time (a screenshot showing a steering lock/angle to make a point) is absurd.

Got it. Fully agree with that. I myself try to put screen shots of the events, after having watched the incidents over and over again in slowmo. Unfortunately, I don't have video capturing tools and rerecord them in slowmo (painfully time consuming ordeal I guess).

Other than the points you have mentioned, the understeer induced in a car plays a critical factor in how fast or slow the car turns in for any given amount of steering input.

[langedweil]

Here's a 360° camara view of the Hamilton Verstappen clash from Max's car.
https://youtu.be/RbuuR1N8McY

Beyond all bashing, this really is a pretty cool way of viewing stuff ...

[Sieper]

Funny thing is, Lewis and Max both Said sorry to each other and shook hands.. at least the both know they could avoided the crash. Now you guys shake hands and say sorry!

I am perfectly fine with Dans79, allthough as I said before, I can do without the sneers, no need to apologize though, just try to leave eachother in your value. Imho that should always be your mindset when typing a message here.

Also the “complaint” that this doens’t Belong here, also posted (by someone else)I feel it absolutely does, this is the bahrain race topic and a one on one clash between two topteam drivers, with a podium on the line is important enough to discuss (admittedly, to death ).

[dans79]

Unfortunately, I don't have video capturing tools and rerecord them in slowmo (painfully time consuming ordeal I guess).

For YouTube videos grab the url and then enter it into this page. https://www.h3xed.com/blogmedia/youtube-info.php
This exposes the raw audio and video streams that you can download at various resolutions and formats.

Then you can load it into an NLE like resolve and step through it frame by frame if you like.
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... ciresolve/

[TAG]

I think the wannabe racers here can listen to a guy that knows what he's talking about. Well that and maybe he's looking for a vacant seat at Mercedes but still.

"I'll be honest," said Ricciardo. "It didn't deserve a penalty so that was fine.

"But it reminded me a little bit of me and [Nico] Rosberg in Budapest [in 2015] where he kept coming and I was on the exit kerb and had nowhere else to go.

"I think Max had the move [completed] already, I just don't think he needed to run all the way to the kerb.
"I think regardless Max would have stayed ahead, he was just a little too greedy."

Hamilton said Verstappen was a "dickhead" immediately after the race in the room the top three drivers wait in before the podium ceremony. He claimed he had forfeited the corner, and Ricciardo agreed Hamilton could not have done more to avoid it

"I heard some people say Lewis could have lifted but you're there, unless he turned off the track or braked…it's easier said than done," he said.

"Lewis was so tight [to the outside of the track] as well, he wasn't going to make Turn 2 with any form of speed.

"Even if Max had hung around the outside [through Turn 2] I just think Max would have had him regardless. He squeezed him a little too much in my opinion."

[maxxer]

Here's a 360° camara view of the Hamilton Verstappen clash from Max's car.

https://youtu.be/RbuuR1N8McY

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

actually seeing it again , VES went in with way too much speed barely missing alonso if HAM did back out earlier he could have undercut VES at the next corner.

[iotar__]

Shocking news: "surge" was driver's fault http://en.f1i.com/news/300531-verstappe ... hrain.html

"I think when he got high on the kerb there was an oscillation on the foot. It was fairly obvious.

"The gearshift around there has always been a bit lumpy, and I think it was a combination of that, pushing flat out, up on the kerb, oscillation with the foot – put a lot of stuff together, that’s what happens.

"So there’s nothing to read into it."
Renaults' own forensic study of Verstappen's telemetry revealed no particular hardware or software malfunction.

As always media bs in not refundable Those "150 power surge caused" headlines (manufactured by RB of course) can't be changed retrospectively into VERSTAPPEN'S LACK OF SKILLS CAUSED QUALIFYING CRASH.