Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

[ben_watkins]

Russian motorsport join other 24 clubs who think Max should go now..

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67831

[gcdugas]

Where are all these clubs that Max says support him? Other than "the boys from Brazil", I haven't heard from any of them. If they are more numerous than his detractors, then let us hear from them. Perhaps they are like Ralf's purported F1 options for 2008.... imaginary.

BTW, are these clubs that are issuing calls for Max to resign the same parties that received the whole 5 hour unedited video?

[WhiteBlue]

....
BTW, are these clubs that are issuing calls for Max to resign the same parties that received the whole 5 hour unedited video?

where did you get the information that there is a 5 hour unedited video and that it was send to the FIA? I believe that is a myth.

NoTW wrote that they will send a copy of the video of the session to the FIA senate. They never said is was unedited. btw, the clubs were supposed to ask for the video if they wanted to see it. not much point if you can download it from Youtube.

while researching the video claim I came across an internet site of victims of NoTW reporter Neville Thurbeck this guy seems to be really disgusting even for a tabloid dirt slinger. we were discussing credibility here of NoTW and Mosley some time ago. after reading this I give Thurbeck and his dirt manufacture zero credibility.

[Ciro Pabón]

Let's give a blessing the scandalous, gossiping, living from other's mistakes, investigative free press. Or shoot the messenger, as you wish...

Different quotations from Thomas Jefferson:

"The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter."

"...public duties more urgent press on the time of public servants, and the offenders have therefore been left to find their punishment in the public indignation.

"The only security of all is in a free press. The force of public opinion cannot be resisted when permitted freely to be expressed. The agitation it produces must be submitted to. It is necessary, to keep the waters pure."

"Printing presses shall be subject to no other restraint than liableness to legal prosecution for false facts printed and published."

"While a full range is proper for actions by individuals either private or public for slanders affecting them, I would wish much to see the experiment tried of getting along without public prosecutions for libels... Patience and well-doing instead of punishment ... would be a happy change in the instruments of government."

"Well doing"... mmmmm. That's a tactic Mr. Mosley could try.

Who has more shame? NOTW or Mosley? Difficult call...

[gcdugas]

Who has more shame? NOTW or Mosley? Difficult call...

Why is it an "either/or" proposition? Why not have both be wrong and shameful? Out with Mosley AND don't buy NotW.

[WhiteBlue]

some comments on Bernies double talk

I just find it strange Ecclestone being so magnanimous now to his 'friend', when it is pretty clear it has been Ecclestone all along leaking all sorts of embarrassing details to the times.

Even as late as yesterday they were quoting him as an unnamed 'authoritative voice' but couldn't help but use such a typical Ecclestone turn of phrase 'poor old' - google it, it's practically Ecclestone's favourite phrase.

CVC and the CRH are in a financial pit, in order to sell F1 for anything resembling a profit the 100 year deal needs to change. That is what this is about, not sex, not sport and certainly not reputations.

It's money and it's always been for Ecclestone.
Posted by Aaron James on May 31, 2008 9:15 AM

Aaron James is spot on. Bernie knows that Max is
not going to allow him to change the 100 year
agreement in a way that will increase CVC's
profits. So Mosley has to go - in a flood of
crocodile tears.

Problem is that it's the FIA clubs, not Bernie who
will decide whether or not Max goes. And they
are likely to defend the FIA's interests rather than
Bernie's.

Bernie thinks Max is damaged by all this but
Bernie grew up in an era when they jailed gays.
He's nearly 80 and probably does not understand
that things have changed. No modern person
would be reluctant to deal with someone just
because they did not like his or her taste in sex.

I can't wait for the moment when we learn who
set Max up.
Posted by Mike on May 31, 2008 2:21 PM

good to see some peole can see the wood for the trees

[checkered]

The following message

is OT in the sense that it doesn't directly deal with the issues that touch Max Mosley. The notions are peripheral to this, so they can be disregarded in good conscience in the framework of discussing the immediate to mid-term fate of the FIA presidency and F1 as a motorsport series. This isn't to say that the tangents I'm about to embark on are wholly removed from the above, only that they lend their contexts to an existence more chaotic in nature than what causalities generally enable. Still, this is merely a reflection on the following:

everybody should watch this interview with Bernie. its worthwhile.

Kudos to Bernie for struggling through an incredible experience seemingly intact. I sure haven't seen him being interviewed like that before, with a deference so unfocussed and incompatible that it was actually disarming. The interviewer's approach was as intractable as I've ever witnessed, esp. given his subject. Ecclestone seemed to move from being taken by a surprise to a sort of a bemused and horrified (but courteous, and at times even sage) resignation. If he ever needed proof of a Divine existence, this must be it - there is no way that an Earthly production meeting can result in such an experience. No way, no how.

Bernie could've been excused for thinking that Mr. Neyrinck of "Spraakmakers" was actually hiding a scythe behind his back, such was the persistently morbid subtext. The interviewer seemed hell-bent to invoke Ecclestone's mortality (as an increasingly acute matter, no less) and the whole affair was riddled with abrupt attempts to get him to cast longing looks down memory lane. Imagery of little Bernie selling lemonade to earn pocket money, sentimental anecdotes of friends lost to the mists of time. And as if this wasn't enough, Ecclestone had to issue a sort of a last will and testament in imagining F1 "without himself"!

Even Neyrinck's grammatical struggles seemed to emerge only to exacerbate the surreal spectacle of two parallel Universes temporarily sharing dimensions. Perhaps the SETI first contact verification protocol should be reviewed in the light of this, and a transcript should be provided to them. The exchange was somehow reminiscent of my fleeting efforts at "training" AI chatbots without using corrective measures i.e. always assuming that what I subjectively held as "wrong" or "illogical" ultimately had no bearing on absolute objectivity. Asking oneself to be forever accommodating amounts to an interesting waste of time.

By these notions I don't mean to be disparaging towards anyone. The interviewer and the interviewee both acted in good faith and managed to exhibit an occurrence and brilliance of a highly unlikely nature, in which both were instrumental. While there was factual F1 content involved, for once it was vastly overshadowed (as far as I'm concerned) by the exemplification of the sheer challenge in getting across.

This recording could take on a whole new meaning in 100, 200 or 500 years, now couldn't it? The farther removed the viewer is from the realities of 2008, the more pertinent this stretching of imagination, the quest for clarity against odds, becomes. Suggestion to "Spraakmakers": Get Max next.

[WhiteBlue]

Much speculation surrounds tomorrows extraordinary general meeting of the FIA. Apparently there will be only 180 delegates to participate as some clubs have not payed their membership fees or have failed to log their proxy in time.

Grandprix.com have speculated that abstentions could have a big impact.

In order to win the vote Mosley needs half the votes plus one. In the case of a confidence vote, abstentions must count as votes against for the simple reason that they are not for the motion. Mosley could find a large number of clubs abstaining, as they do not want him to stay but do not want to be seen to vote against him. Thus, if Mosley gets 60 votes in his favour and 40 against, he could still lose if there are 40 abstentions.

This could perhaps be a mechanism that could still pressure Max Mosley into a compromise deal for November this year if it were based on facts. The idea of a confidence vote goes back to a letter from FIA's deputy president Franco Lucchesi who proposed the compromise in the name of the mobility clubs.

Though acknowledging the worries expressed and the proposed solution, President Mosley reiterated his intention of requesting a confidence vote for reasons already summarised in the recent letter he sent to all the FIA Club Presidents. We could do nothing but take note of his determination.

The statues of the FIA are complicated and there is no information in the public domain about the agenda. If the original agenda had a confidence vote I would be surprised.

Mosley had the Senat call the assembly to deal with the breach of his privacy. I would be a bit surprised if he had initiated a motion for confidence in himself. so logic dictates that the oposing mobility clubs could have put a non confidence vote on the agenda. abstentions in this case would count for Mosley and not against him. this is one of the big confusions which come from the lack of public transparency of the motor clubs and the FIA. I must say it all looks very confusing.

however it pans out I hope that there will be a last minute compromise perhaps even after a test vote. if Mosley wins the vote and the mobility clubs get frustrated and split off the FIA would be finished. that would be extremely bad indeed and Mosley should recognise that this would destroy all he has achieved in his years of hard work.

edited for additional Francesi quote

[Scotracer]

I just hope some good will come of this. Changes to the technical regulations and the direction the sport is taking are the #1 priority here. Fans of the sport should not be wanting badly for the regulations/situation of just a few years ago.

[WhiteBlue]

I just hope some good will come of this. Changes to the technical regulations and the direction the sport is taking are the #1 priority here. Fans of the sport should not be wanting badly for the regulations/situation of just a few years ago.

[-o< totally agree Scotracer!! If the FIA splits the fighting between teams, the CRH, the governing body of the day and the manufacturers could start from scatch. F1 could end in a Champ car scenario of chaos and decline or with total control by the CRH which would be equally bad.

[Scotracer]

I just hope some good will come of this. Changes to the technical regulations and the direction the sport is taking are the #1 priority here. Fans of the sport should not be wanting badly for the regulations/situation of just a few years ago.

[-o< totally agree Scotracer!! If the FIA splits the fighting between teams, the CRH, the governing body of the day and the manufacturers could start from scatch. F1 could end in a Champ car scenario of chaos and decline or with total control by the CRH which would be equally bad.

As much as it's unlikely, the removal of Max should allow the sport to take a positive step towards what it used to be -- a loud, fast spectacle rather than a regulated castrated mess. I doubt it will happen but I pray to that it does.

The only scenarios I am willing to accept in terms of regulations:

A) Proposed 2009 aero regulations (that we are STILL unaware of) are implemented. With either immediate effect (for 2009) or for the 2010 season, a reintroduction of engine development with only monitory penalties instead of grid drops for those with engine failures. Introduce slicks as intended. Remove KERS as it is purely a political stunt, nothing more.

B) Re introduce 3.0 V10 engines with a 19,000rpm rev limit. These engines are now bullet proof and as the technology has been around for over 10 years, relatively inexpensive. Return to 2003 aero regulations (small engine cover, small rear wing endplates). Re-introduce slicks but less competitive than proposed 2009 ones -- this will reduce the graining issue.

C) Reintroduce unrestricted 3.0 V10s (as safety standards have increased so much in recent times) with 2004 aero regulations but with 2008 tyres. This would make the cars quite skittish and a big handful -- increasing spectator enjoyment.

I can dream, can't I?

[donskar]

OK, a bit of a spin on this thread:

Do you think Max will win or not? And your reasons.

I think he is going to win (I pray he does not) because organized, entrenched evil usually wins the early battles against naive, less organized good. And this war will end after just one battle.

[WhiteBlue]

I think Mosley will be gone this year one way or the other. If the mobility clubs desert the FIA and start a new Federation they can realistically offer Bernie and the teams a new home at equal or better conditions. they can pull so many people from the FIA that the FIA will simply collaps as an empty shell. I think they will threaten Max with this and he will sooner or later see that they mean business. They can pull this off I believe.

[Scotracer]

I think Mosley will be gone this year one way or the other. If the mobility clubs desert the FIA and start a new Federation they can realistically offer Bernie and the teams a new home at equal or better conditions. they can pull so many people from the FIA that the FIA will simply collaps as an empty shell. I think they will threaten Max with this and he will sooner or later see that they mean business. They can pull this off I believe.

[-o< [-o<

C'mon lads, pray with me! This has to happen

[WhiteBlue]

The one sticky issue that I see is Mosley taking Bernie down with him. If he manages to hang the sting on Bernie before the potential rebllions is kicked loose they would have no leader.