2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

[proteus]

I was really surprised when people expected Mclaren will instantly sort their qualifying problems in a week (even less) from Bahrain to China. There is no magic wand and substantial progress wont be seen just like that. There is also no guarentees new updates will solve their problems, and even if they do it will mean they will be contenders for 4th in the field. And that is great.

And to adress something else. Their Honda era meant they probably had one of the best engine/chasis integrations which showed potential, even in disastrous 2015 season, so STRs Bahrain result was like that. Its really strange that a car that was nowhere in 2 races out of 3 was able to perform superbly in Bahrain. It just might have been a fluke, a track with a sweetspot for the outfit. I believe Monaco could be STRs next great chance for results.

So far the move to Renault is showing as a good move indeed.

[Nuvolari]

I thought I'd analyze the improvement of the MCL33 over the MCL32 in terms of qualifying, taking the best laps in dry qualifying and compared it to the improvements of the RB14 over the RB13.

Data are presented as % deficit to pole position.



The trend line is a 2-race moving average.

We know that the Honda was not operating in it's optimum window in the early part of last year, and I believe a marked improvement was seen at the Spanish GP, so prior to Spain, the MCL32 was qualifying around 3.5% off the pole position time, with it starting to qualify around 2.5% off pole after that. In the less power sensitive tracks it was nearer to 1.5% (Monaco, Hungary, Singapore) with the gap growing to between 2.5-3% in the more power hungry tracks (Canada, Britain, Japan).

So the baseline is pretty clear, you would expect a 1% gain in the power sensitive tracks with a more powerful PU. The rationale for the switch is also pretty clear. With that said, I think speaking as a McL fan, it's also pretty disappointing to see that this is precisely where they are qualifying in the first few races this year. I know this is a new car and there's lots to do to optimize the package but, so far it's good to see them closing the gap to the front runners in race pace. The days of a bored Alonso desperately doing slow laps and then turn in a fast one just to see what the car could do, I'm glad to say are over!

Turning our attention to RB--who are a great benchmark. I know they had correlation issues early part of last year, it seems they have gained around 0.7% in qualifying pace. I'm not sure what proportion of that gain is chassis and PU but, it would be interesting to see how they develop as the season progresses. Some of the gains that the works Renault team have this year compared to last is also tending to put McLaren's gains to shame, I'm afraid. So in reality McLaren need a very big step forward in Spain to catch up to the front runners. Hopefully they'll start to understand the package they have quickly, as I think that will give them a bigger step forward than the updates themselves per se.

[Xero]

I was really surprised when people expected Mclaren will instantly sort their qualifying problems in a week (even less) from Bahrain to China. There is no magic wand and substantial progress wont be seen just like that. There is also no guarentees new updates will solve their problems, and even if they do it will mean they will be contenders for 4th in the field. And that is great.

And to adress something else. Their Honda era meant they probably had one of the best engine/chasis integrations which showed potential, even in disastrous 2015 season, so STRs Bahrain result was like that. Its really strange that a car that was nowhere in 2 races out of 3 was able to perform superbly in Bahrain. It just might have been a fluke, a track with a sweetspot for the outfit. I believe Monaco could be STRs next great chance for results.

So far the move to Renault is showing as a good move indeed.

I agree. It seems people who pointed out last season that McLaren would be behind Red Bull due to their knowledge and experience with the Renault package, are the same people calling McLaren out for now being behind Red Bull.

It will be a season long journey to get the integration to a satisfactory level, and will likely require input towards the MCL34 before they are completely on a level with Red Bull. That's not to say it's impossible to close the gap and fight with them on a regular basis this season. I'm sure the upgrade in Spain will be a good step forward, let's just focus on clearing the midfield pack first, there could be a cheeky podium up for grabs in that position alone.

[diffuser]

Even if Mclaren are bringing their "Australia car" to Spain, that means they are at least 7 weeks of updates behind the other teams, assuming none of those tested their Aus cars in the winter testing.

Its all academic really whatever way you spin it the car Mclaren will have in Spain will be racing against the cars the other teams bring to Spain, not the ones they had in Aus.

I don't think it works that way. It puts production 7 weeks more behind R&D.

At some point they start combining updates to catch up.

[nirvaand]

I agree. It seems people who pointed out last season that McLaren would be behind Red Bull due to their knowledge and experience with the Renault package, are the same people calling McLaren out for now being behind Red Bull.

It will be a season long journey to get the integration to a satisfactory level, and will likely require input towards the MCL34 before they are completely on a level with Red Bull. That's not to say it's impossible to close the gap and fight with them on a regular basis this season. I'm sure the upgrade in Spain will be a good step forward, let's just focus on clearing the midfield pack first, there could be a cheeky podium up for grabs in that position alone.

Exactly! People are writing McLaren off too soon just based on recent race results and the difference to Red Bull at the end of the race. They are clearly misjudging how race pace works.

Race pace is very dependent on traffic and the car in front. Based on the Chinese Grand Prix, Fernando Alonso was only 0.8 seconds off the front runners, but because he was stuck behind the two Haas's, his lap times were significantly compromised, during the period that he was behind the Haas cars, he was lapping 1.2 to 1.5 seconds slower than front runners. But as soon as he had free air, he was only 0.8 seconds slower.

Just based on this, what people are failing to understand is, McLaren don't have to match Ferrari, Red Bull, and Mercedes in terms of pace to take the fight to them. If they can start qualifying P7 or P8, all they have to do is be within 0.4 seconds (this will vary from track to track, because of track distance and overall layout) on a track like China of them in race pace. Then, if they can get a few positions on the start, they will be in the mix with the top 3. However, if they don't get any positions on the start then they will end P7 and P8.

For example if we had a race in China again, and McLaren cut down the race pace difference to 0.4 seconds a lap and end up in front of say a Red Bull at the start, then even though the Red Bull is 0.4 seconds a lap quicker on paper, that won't translate into their lap time in the race, because of the dirty air and increased tyre wear they have because of being behind a slower car. Hence, if all works to plan, McLaren will be able to keep track position and end up ahead of the Red Bull. (Obviously this is considering they solve their drag issue, otherwise they will be sitting ducks on the straights and will lose the position very easily).

However, if the Red Bull is in front, then Red Bull will be able to lap 0.4 seconds a lap quicker and build the gap to the McLaren. This is what you see happening right now. Renault also seem to be 0.8 seconds off the pace (difficult to say if McLaren or Renault have the better race pace, they had different race strategies in Bahrain and China) from the front runners as well, but 0.8 seconds gap is too much. So even though they are qualifying P7 and can maybe gain a few positions on the start, they will quickly lose the position to the much faster top 3 cars. Hence the gap between the front 3 runners and the midfield pack each and every race. Currently, none of the midfield teams have a quick enough car to maintain position against a Merc, Ferrari or Red Bull in the race.

This is much like how Red Bull did in the first half of last season. They were getting podiums every now and then when they could get ahead of the Ferrari and Merc at the start, but struggled massively and couldn't keep up with them when they didn't get them at the start.

This is the most basic description I can give. Let's not forget Fernando Alonso took a Ferrari that was 0.5 seconds slower than Red Bull and McLaren in 2012 and took the championship fight to the last race. And the reason he was able to do that was because of what I just mentioned. He didn't qualify the highest in the Ferrari, but because of his ability at the race starts and strategy he was able to place his car in front of his rivals and neglect that race pace difference.

So all McLaren have to do is close the race pace gap to let's say 0.4 seconds (this will vary from track to track, because of track distance and overall layout) on a track like China (currently difference is 0.8 seconds at China, varies from track to track obviously) and qualify higher. If they do solve the car's fundamental drag issue and aero inefficiency, they can qualify higher and look to maybe take few top 6 finishes by mid-season. Obviously race wins and podiums are likely out of the question on a normal day if Ferrari, Merc and Red Bull all finish, but it would be possible for them to at least finish ahead of possibly 1 or 2 of those 6 cars, much like how Red Bull were doing last season.

I know I'm stating the obvious, but sometimes people forget even the obvious, so it's important to remind them.

[RonDennis]

Let's close this topic until Spain.

I still wish to believe in McLaren, but this year it's the time to show what they are actually capable of. So far it's been a bit disappointing, but I don't know what problems they had, so I'll give them some time. I really hope they can go the front again, because McLaren is a team you should love or hate, because they're arrogant, not because they're slow.

[mclaren111]

Autosport:

Renault was outsmarted by Formula 1's big teams over the winter and is "disappointed" it has not made a bigger step, says chief technical officer Bob Bell.

"I would say we're disappointed that we're not further up," he said. "We hoped to take a bit of lap time out of the top three teams this winter."We haven't, if anything they've moved slightly further ahead.

"We just didn't do a good enough job, we weren't as smart as they were over the winter in designing and developing the car."

We are not the only team that have had a disappointing start to 2018.

Can't wait to see what Barcelona brings.

[Andres125sx]

Autosport:

Renault was outsmarted by Formula 1's big teams over the winter and is "disappointed" it has not made a bigger step, says chief technical officer Bob Bell.

"I would say we're disappointed that we're not further up," he said. "We hoped to take a bit of lap time out of the top three teams this winter."We haven't, if anything they've moved slightly further ahead.

"We just didn't do a good enough job, we weren't as smart as they were over the winter in designing and developing the car."

We are not the only team that have had a disappointing start to 2018.

Can't wait to see what Barcelona brings.

Dissapointing start to 2018?

With McLaren 4th and Alonso 6th in the tables?

With no DNFs after 3 GPs and 5 points finishes?

With same best position (5th) of Honda era at the very first race with Renault and Alonso not finishing below 7th?


What were you expecting?, a podium at first 2018 GP?



Keep real

[mclaren111]

Autosport:

Renault was outsmarted by Formula 1's big teams over the winter and is "disappointed" it has not made a bigger step, says chief technical officer Bob Bell.

"I would say we're disappointed that we're not further up," he said. "We hoped to take a bit of lap time out of the top three teams this winter."We haven't, if anything they've moved slightly further ahead.

"We just didn't do a good enough job, we weren't as smart as they were over the winter in designing and developing the car."

We are not the only team that have had a disappointing start to 2018.

Can't wait to see what Barcelona brings.

Dissapointing start to 2018?

With McLaren 4th and Alonso 6th in the tables?

With no DNFs after 3 GPs and 5 points finishes?

With same best position (5th) of Honda era at the very first race with Renault and Alonso not finishing below 7th?


What were you expecting?, a podium at first 2018 GP?



Keep real

Car is slower than what we all believed it would be, Mclaren included.

I agree it's not as bad as Honda days and think things will improve well over the year.

And thanks to RB and Mad Max we were able to bag some "lucky" points.

[godlameroso]

McLaren had no way of knowing how much Ferrari and Red Bull would improve over the winter. The chassis they have now is not a whole lot faster than last year's, not surprising as it's a small update. No doubt more energy was devoted to stuffing the engine in there, than making aero improvements.

Now that they have the engine installation figured out, they can devote their energy to putting more performance on the car.

[PhillipM]

The actual chassis they have now might well even be slower than last years, given the compromises.

[JonoNic]

I don't understand what some of you guys are saying about this and last year's Mclaren. First the cooling requirements of last year's car caused some of the reliability issues last year (PU) and that PU was was constrained by small sidepods ( but draggy car). This year the car is also very draggy, yet the cooling on this car is also constraining this year's PU (They can't use all the PU modes yet). So basically it's the same as last year. Which is it? Side pods are too small for cooling or is the bodywork too draggy? Seems to me like an oxymoron.

[godlameroso]

Did they? I don't recall them having any overheating issues or anything like that, almost all of the problems Honda had last year were due to the MGU-H. This year McLaren has admitted themselves that they went too conservative with the cooling. 30% of the drag on these cars go to just the cooling system, so there's big gains in straight line speed once they get that sorted. When I build track cars, I always focus on the cooling system before I even think about aero, because that's the most basic area where you can make big gains.

[JonoNic]

Did they? I don't recall them having any overheating issues or anything like that, almost all of the problems Honda had last year were due to the MGU-H. This year McLaren has admitted themselves that they went too conservative with the cooling. 30% of the drag on these cars go to just the cooling system, so there's big gains in straight line speed once they get that sorted. When I build track cars, I always focus on the cooling system before I even think about aero, because that's the most basic area where you can make big gains.

Oh. So the overheating was with the H. Thanks for clearing that up

[JonoNic]

Maybe someone should start a thread on the process of building a successful racecar (successful in the first or second season I'm not sure) and where they would go all out to optimise and where they would compromise for now. I bet you there would be many theories coming from that.