General Honda F1 Topic

[Singabule]

Change PU midseason is no brainer. Instead, RB could see TR progress and help them to update the car and may update it to B spec car to certain extent. RB could analyze the approach and improvement and save it to their desktop instead and open it if needed to improve PU integration if they decide to move to honda PU. Its easy, this is the main advantage to have feeder team.

[Big Tea]

So what is the written in stone rule for mid season changes if there is one? Leave aside incidentals like contracts and information transfer. sponsorship conflicts etc, just plain 'if RBR wants to change to Honda next week can they do it'.

While we are there, the FIA rules say they must be notified next month what engine will be supplied to who, and there is the name change too. What about when the notification deadline for next year has passed? can they change their mind in December. or September or whenever?
( I suppose the Honda could still carry AM branding, but I somehow do not see it. )

[PhillipM]

You could probably physically change to a Honda in about 6 weeks of work.
However, your car would be a complete dog and a packaging nightmare and left competing at the back of the grid.

For any decent packaging or integration work you'd want to have a contract signed and in stone right now for next year already.

[loner]

I'm starting to wonder what kind of substance some here are smoking...
Red Bull will not be swapping to Honda engines this season and honestly Honda have a LONG way to go before they would be worthy of being in a 2019 Red Bull.

you guys never get bored from repeating this ?
Honda is almost equal with Renault and they both are inferior to Mercedes and Ferrari
Honda don't lack harvesting in long straits that was in the past not anymore but they need about 50-70 hp more from ICE.
RBR will use Honda PU in 2019
RBR will ditch renault PU at the end of 2018 season and it is very wise from them to develop the current STR chassis if they want to start 2019 hitting the ground strongly to challenge for the 2019 title.

No I never get bored quoting facts.
Please look at the performance of the Renault teams from the races so far this year vs the Honda powered TR.

Again RB will only ditch the Renault for the Honda IF it can produce the same results or better.

exactly .. but why you neglecting the chassis effect and the set up of the car .. now compare the Honda PU during the Bahrain gp with the midfield .. another thing check the speed trap of the Honda PU since the winter testing till the Chinese gp.
RBR will ditch Renault and use Honda in 2019 , there will be no Aston Martin in 2019 the Honda badge will be allover
the car with a fat pay cheque and a WCC title.
go look at that stunning high efficiency sweet chassis with such tiny sides and you will know why Honda were so eagerly to JOIN IN.
deal with it

[techman]

i can understand there could be integration issues that might come with a honda in a redbull chassis but because the honda is compact unit it will probably be a bit easier. i believe TR could probably further optimized with honda, i hope redbull will join with honda sooner and test a mule so they can iron out ay problems and prepare for 2019

[etusch]

i can understand there could be integration issues that might come with a honda in a redbull chassis but because the honda is compact unit it will probably be a bit easier. i believe TR could probably further optimized with honda, i hope redbull will join with honda sooner and test a mule so they can iron out ay problems and prepare for 2019

I think it is not compactness matter it is layout matter. If redbull were swapping from renault to ferrari it might be easy like what Toro Rosso has experienced last two years but this time it was a different layout and they couldn't finish integration

[techman]

I think it is not compactness matter it is layout matter. If redbull were swapping from renault to ferrari it might be easy like what Toro Rosso experienced last two years but this time it was a different layout and they couldn't finish integration

i know the layout is different but already TR has all the parts made for this engine layout. so its probably the little details that needed to worked out for a redbull honda integration. it might take at least 2 months but i believe its still possible.

[PhillipM]

i know the layout is different but already TR has all the parts made for this engine layout. so its probably the little details that needed to worked out for a redbull honda integration. it might take at least 2 months but i believe its still possible.

You do realise that engine packaging, radiators, intercoolers, etc, etc, is one of the MAJOR performance differentiators when it comes to aero?
Yes, I'm sure Red Bull wants to copy all that and finish at the back of the grid like Torro Rosso did at the race that Red Bull just won

Now I'm not even close to one of the most technical contributors on here, but jesus wept this forum has gone downhill fast over the past 6 months

[MrPotatoHead]

Ok let's put aside emotion and feelings for a minute...

From a technical standpoint if we ignore the rules, if they did decide to swap "mid season" then they would require all new parts around the engine and an all new aero package...
Chances are the tub would also need to be different. This would require not only a new plug and mold but also would require the tub go through crash testing and certification again.
All while they are working on improving this years car and while working on next years car.
So they would have to double the staff in key areas firstly to make this happen.

I understand some people have no idea the work that actually goes into developing these cars but the work we are talking about to do what I mention above is a LOT.

Let's not forget that they would also have ZERO test time... they would have to jump into the second half of the season with a brand new car with no testing... what a disaster that would be.

So let's please put this idea to bed. It's not happening.

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

I'm not overly convinced a good performance in the Toro Rosso will immediately translate to great performance in a Red Bull.

We've learned that McLaren weren't particularly malleable when it came to the packaging, insisting on a size-zero concept no matter the cost to the engine layout or cooling (and so began the painful tale of McLaren-Honda). Toro Rosso appear to have taken lessons from this and have worked much more in partnership with Honda to accommodate their engine.

For Red Bull to successfully integrate with Honda there's going to be a little give and take. Can Red Bull allow a compromise on their aero? Are Honda better equipped and more experienced to develop their engine concept better suited towards an aggressive aero package? I don't know who'd bend first in this situation... Red Bull are always going to be Red Bull but I wonder how the McLaren experience has affected attitudes within Honda.

[senja]

( I suppose the Honda could still carry AM branding, but I somehow do not see it. )

Aston Martin is not engine branding. Tag Heuer is. So why would Honda be branded as AM? Aston Martin is just a sponsor.

[Big Tea]

( I suppose the Honda could still carry AM branding, but I somehow do not see it. )

Aston Martin is not engine branding. Tag Heuer is. So why would Honda be branded as AM? Aston Martin is just a sponsor.

But it is still the branding of another car maker. I don't see the two being comparable.
But then again, I never associate Renault with AM either

[dren]

If the Renault PU improves enough that Red Bull are legitimately fighting for wins in the second half of the season, I don't see why Red Bull would jump ship and change to Honda, as much as I'd like it. If the Honda is on par with the Renault, power and reliability wise, by midseason, Red Bull will have a hard choice to make. There are certainly benefits to working with a PU partner that can design parts to integrate into the overall car design. This is the last performance benefit that Red Bull is sorely missing relative to Mercedes and Ferrari.

[McHonda]

( I suppose the Honda could still carry AM branding, but I somehow do not see it. )

Aston Martin is not engine branding. Tag Heuer is. So why would Honda be branded as AM? Aston Martin is just a sponsor.

You think any of them (AM,Honda and Tag Heur) want an Aston Martin Red Bull Racing Honda Tag Heur running about?

It would be ridiculous. Someone would be dumped, which means contracts need broken or at least with Tag, re-negotiated to move to a general sponsor with maybe some cash back.

Infinity and Renault were the same company so that was fine but neither Aston or Honda will be happy with the branding being equal billing so likely you'd have to dump Aston Martin too.

For an engine that's similar at absolute best?

Mid-season is not happening and even 2019 won't be assured until the engine becomes worth the total arse ache getting them on board would create with their current title and major sponsors. We'll know it is when they announce it.

[etusch]

If the Renault PU improves enough that Red Bull are legitimately fighting for wins in the second half of the season, I don't see why Red Bull would jump ship and change to Honda, as much as I'd like it. If the Honda is on par with the Renault, power and reliability wise, by midseason, Red Bull will have a hard choice to make. There are certainly benefits to working with a PU partner that can design parts to integrate into the overall car design. This is the last performance benefit that Red Bull is sorely missing relative to Mercedes and Ferrari.

I think if both come same level to decision time they will choose Honda.