2018 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

[F1Krof]

I honestly believe that they have no clue as to why they're slow. They're trying to blame the tires but honestly I don't think the issue solely lies on the tires. They've fallen back because they didn't bring anything significantly new besides trimmed sidepods. It's the same car from last year with a bit of tweaks here and there, while the opposition really inovated. Look at Red Bull and Ferrari's aggressive design. Merc's so dull in this area, they're missing quite a lot. If I was them, I'd scratch this season and fully commit to 2019 with different design.

why would any title contender do that after just few races?

Because the results are conclusive and it's only going to get harder and harder. While you're trying to fix the problems, the other (Ferrari & Red Bull) are developing a winning formula which is already faster and better in many areas. That's why.

[ivanlesk]

And not doing dev this year can make you lose valuable track and correlation data needed for good package next year.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

I honestly believe that they have no clue as to why they're slow. They're trying to blame the tires but honestly I don't think the issue solely lies on the tires. They've fallen back because they didn't bring anything significantly new besides trimmed sidepods. It's the same car from last year with a bit of tweaks here and there, while the opposition really inovated. Look at Red Bull and Ferrari's aggressive design. Merc's so dull in this area, they're missing quite a lot. If I was them, I'd scratch this season and fully commit to 2019 with different design.

When W04 came out, this was the exact reaction! But W04 (top) was almost 3 seconds faster than W03 (bottom). The car looked every bit the same, except for vanity panel on the nose. W04 had the same tyre eating characteristics that W03 had. In the same year, McLaren went for revolution and never recovered from the wrong direction that they took. Red Bull always evolved their cars, except for 2017, where they went for one philosophy, which they figured out a failure and then started changing it the season progressed. They were quite far behind and have clawed back the lost performance. In that sense, they have only come to where they belong, by having gone backwards. The problem for Mercedes is, they seems to have put themselves in same exact situation, that they were last year. The question is, will they come out of it again. Time will tell. But there is absolutely no sense in dropping the development for this year.

[Phil]

I honestly believe that they have no clue as to why they're slow. They're trying to blame the tires but honestly I don't think the issue solely lies on the tires.

It's all about the tires. It was like that last year too. The obvious trend simply continued and got exaggerated due to Pirelli changing to softer tires this year. That, and the power-units are now even more closely matched, also adding to it that apparently, Mercedes have reverted to an earlier oil spec that allows them to run with more safety margin to the 0.6l/100 limit. Apparently, the method of measuring the oil usage has some error-margin, so if you risk running more closely to that limit, you are also risking being disqualified. Apparently, Ferrari are running closer to that limit while Mercedes is playing it more safe by reverting to an earlier oil specification.

And back to the tires; If it wasn't about the tires, then Mercedes wouldn't have been so far ahead in Melbourne and so far behind in China. Especially their overall performance on different sets of tires should demonstrate quite clearly that it's indeed the tires they are struggling with - quick(er) on the harder compounds but not extracting what they should from the softer ones. The car itself is very quick, that I am convinced about, but it all falls and succeeds on how much you can extract from the tires.

[muramasa]

Merc is dull? The car is as stunning and innovative as Ferrari and RBR, and it's no way the same car from last year with some tweaks to me.

Basically Merc is tyre limited as they were in the first couple months of the season last year, have been several times in the years before that as well, and RBR cars were in their dominant era in early 10's. I really hope Pirelli goes and Bridgestone or Michelin or whatever supply proper F1 racing tyre again with which "Quali run" throughout the race (or one stint of about 1/2 ~ 1/3 of the race distance) is possible like it used to until 2010. It's extremely frustrating to see faster F1 cars cannot go faster due to crap tyre, everything is just tyre management exercise. In Bridgestone era when you could just push and push and push, Lewis was utter monster, so were the likes of Alonso. It was pure joy to see what those talents can do. But no more. Of course better drivers are always better no matter what format as it is about being on the fine limit, but we've lost all the spectacle that those monster drivers with monster cars can display thanks to the tyre, and it's nothing but tragedy.

[ripper]

Mercedes last year did a good step from Spain GP. They might do the same this season... no reason at all to scrap them from WCC/WDC yet

[Shrieker]

@ muramasa,

+1. Bring back 2010 bridgestones and let them race. We have DRS now to mitigate the effects of dirty air. Imagine 2010 with DRS. It would've been a fantastic season (not that it wasn't, but would've been even more so).

[F1Krof]

I honestly believe that they have no clue as to why they're slow. They're trying to blame the tires but honestly I don't think the issue solely lies on the tires. They've fallen back because they didn't bring anything significantly new besides trimmed sidepods. It's the same car from last year with a bit of tweaks here and there, while the opposition really inovated. Look at Red Bull and Ferrari's aggressive design. Merc's so dull in this area, they're missing quite a lot. If I was them, I'd scratch this season and fully commit to 2019 with different design.

When W04 came out, this was the exact reaction! But W04 (top) was almost 3 seconds faster than W03 (bottom). The car looked every bit the same, except for vanity panel on the nose. W04 had the same tyre eating characteristics that W03 had. In the same year, McLaren went for revolution and never recovered from the wrong direction that they took. Red Bull always evolved their cars, except for 2017, where they went for one philosophy, which they figured out a failure and then started changing it the season progressed. They were quite far behind and have clawed back the lost performance. In that sense, they have only come to where they belong, by having gone backwards. The problem for Mercedes is, they seems to have put themselves in same exact situation, that they were last year. The question is, will they come out of it again. Time will tell. But there is absolutely no sense in dropping the development for this year.

http://www.ausmotive.com/F1/2013/Merced ... W03-01.jpg

Except the aren't the same.

Clearly W03 had the double DRS thing, which hindered them on developing and setting up the front Wing. Also W03 didn't have the Coanda Style EBD which they've upgraded to W04 and got rid of DDRS System they had.
The analogy is not valid I believe.

In this year however the story is different. They dropped the ball because they were convinced that the shrinking of the package itself will keep them at the front.

[ringo]

The ferrari is now the faster and stronger engined car.
Mercedes arent doing badly, its just that the ferrari is a better car. It has more downforce as it did last year, and have come back with a stronger engine. I think that's most of the difference this year. The ferrari engine is as strong if not stronger than the mercedes unit.
Mercedes will be fine once they go a little more aggressive with the mechanical side of things. The must be able to keep in touch of the win, should their car turn out to be more reliable throughout the year. All ferrari has to do is have some reliability issues for mercedes to win with the slower and more reserved car.

[Phil]

Do they really? IMO the tires are such an integral part of the performance factor that it simply can not be overlooked. For sure, the Ferrari and Mercedes engine are on par. I definitely see a clear advantage for Ferrari where tire management is concerned though - and that is a crucial advantage to have.

Even so, it's amazing to think that Mercedes were the clear favorite and fastest package in Melbourne (but didn't win due to an untimely safety car and miscalculation on their part), that they could have won Bahrain had they been a little more aggressive vs Vettel and in China, they were on track to actually win, if it had not been for, again, a safety car, that played right into RedBulls hands...

Given that Ferrari probably have the best current package from at least 3 out of 4 races, it's amazing to think how close Mercedes came in not capitalizing on at least 3 wins... and yet, even with the way things are, they are actually leading the championship by 1 point (currently).

[Johnlub]

I honestly believe that they have no clue as to why they're slow. They're trying to blame the tires but honestly I don't think the issue solely lies on the tires. They've fallen back because they didn't bring anything significantly new besides trimmed sidepods. It's the same car from last year with a bit of tweaks here and there, while the opposition really inovated. Look at Red Bull and Ferrari's aggressive design. Merc's so dull in this area, they're missing quite a lot. If I was them, I'd scratch this season and fully commit to 2019 with different design.

When W04 came out, this was the exact reaction! But W04 (top) was almost 3 seconds faster than W03 (bottom). The car looked every bit the same, except for vanity panel on the nose. W04 had the same tyre eating characteristics that W03 had. In the same year, McLaren went for revolution and never recovered from the wrong direction that they took. Red Bull always evolved their cars, except for 2017, where they went for one philosophy, which they figured out a failure and then started changing it the season progressed. They were quite far behind and have clawed back the lost performance. In that sense, they have only come to where they belong, by having gone backwards. The problem for Mercedes is, they seems to have put themselves in same exact situation, that they were last year. The question is, will they come out of it again. Time will tell. But there is absolutely no sense in dropping the development for this year.

http://www.ausmotive.com/F1/2013/Merced ... W03-01.jpg

jeez, what did they do to our eyes back then...

[Vanja #66]

The ferrari is now the faster and stronger engined car.

Really not sure we can say that when we look at how Force Indias and Williams did here compared to Sauber and Haas.

[iotar__]

To anonymous coward playing internet points (you can stick them you know where) games:

" trying to provoke another member!"

No, pointing out using real world examples nonsensical bragging and panicking of driver fanatics because their hero doesn't have everything on a silver plate of a dominant car.

Short version: three races, not that different from '17: Bahrain, Australia and China the odd one, with no oil drama and bigger tyre problems ('17), Mercedes could have won all of them ('18), should have won one or two (Aust). Future: we'll see.

Long version, reference is the real world racing measured in time, last season to this season (early races), not soundbites in headlines (magic oil, Horner's best chassis, magic Q mode):

- magic oil - it would be nice to know how much but Ferrari didn't need it to be quicker in '17 in Australia (race - bigger advantage compared to '18, Q - smaller), Bahrain (race - hard to say with all the problems, let's say comparable to '18) or Russia (both Q and race)

- soft tyre "struggles", last season to this season, Mercedes "struggled" (very relatively hence ") earlier in the '17 season - Russia is a good example, Bott-Vett towards the end of the first stint (softer tyres), Austria - similar race, maybe overall smaller gap, less deg. problems and smaller difference if any. Conclusion: changes happened, might happen this season as well.

China is the odd one but as mentioned earlier - Ferrari were quicker on harder tyres in the race so it's not some "soft tyres problems". Although it might be the first more reference track (combination of corners and straights) this race in terms of Fer-Merc balance wasn't different to Russia '17 but with bigger gap in Q (any big difference is surprising).

Drivers aspect: China '18 and '17 Russia similarities cover it.

[F1Krof]

Great strategy by the team don't you think? And that stint from Bottas? Confirming Allison's claims that they have the best car to treat to tires?

[Fulcrum]

Bottas seems to have significant issues in qualifying - at times - but seems to be performing more strongly in the race during the second half of stints. In this case, the tyre degradation was so low the race just came to him with every lap he stayed out, while the others pitted onto what were ultimately inferior compounds. Without the safety car Bottas would have had to do a lot of work, but the win was a possibility. Very disappointed for him.