General Honda F1 Topic

[ivanlesk]

What would be RB-s gain (switching to Honda) if Honda and Renault would be similar in performance? (or if one would be just a LITTLE bit better?

[JonoNic]

What would be RB-s gain (switching to Honda) if Honda and Renault would be similar in performance? (or if one would be just a LITTLE bit better?

So I'm just answering your question... Just a little better would bring them closer to the front two and a works contract.

[ivanlesk]

But that would set them back in integration terms for next year, wouldn't it?
And they would probably lose more in driveability rather than gain in little batter pu ( in case of switching to Honda)

[McMika98]

Honda engine is more compact and will give more flexibility for gearbox and suspension. They already provide the internal gears on Toro rosso so already have fine tuned to engine. Also 20 million will go towards aero or chassis. So another gain

[HPD]

[media]https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 9195127808[/media]

The maximum reaponsable of Honda Motorsport Masashi Yamamoto is in Baku. Here there would be a key meeting with Red Bull to define the possible Honda engine for the Milton Keynes squadron for 2019/2020. This morning Marko has met with Tost.

[loner]

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 9195127808

The maximum reaponsable of Honda Motorsport Masashi Yamamoto is in Baku. Here there would be a key meeting with Red Bull to define the possible Honda engine for the Milton Keynes squadron for 2019/2020. This morning Marko has met with Tost.

[JonoNic]

But that would set them back in integration terms for next year, wouldn't it?
And they would probably lose more in driveability rather than gain in little batter pu ( in case of switching to Honda)

It also gives them 2 years with Honda before 2021. I'm just playing devils advocate.

[ivanlesk]

But that would set them back in integration terms for next year, wouldn't it?
And they would probably lose more in driveability rather than gain in little batter pu ( in case of switching to Honda)

It also gives them 2 years with Honda before 2021. I'm just playing devils advocate.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that staying with R is better than going with H.

Just, trying to understand why do extra effort to be in same place (if engines will converge or at least Honda and Renault will be in same form in 2019 and everybody altogether will be a lot closer in 2020). Why not use this resources and develop better package without dealing with integration issues and getting to now new PU.

Would there be any other gain?

[techman]

very interesting, i hope they make a redbulll honda mule and test it, because you cant compare with TR with new driver and we know their chasis is no redbull with new drivers. hoping redbull honda 2019

[loner]

But that would set them back in integration terms for next year, wouldn't it?
And they would probably lose more in driveability rather than gain in little batter pu ( in case of switching to Honda)

It also gives them 2 years with Honda before 2021. I'm just playing devils advocate.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that staying with R is better than going with H.

Just, trying to understand why do extra effort to be in same place (if engines will converge or at least Honda and Renault will be in same form in 2019 and everybody altogether will be a lot closer in 2020). Why not use this resources and develop better package without dealing with integration issues and getting to now new PU.

Would there be any other gain?

many gains for both teams .. RBR will be granted with a works deal with a manufacturer don't have his own racing team
they have all the priority not just for the coming 2 years but beyond , Renault never delivered realy since 2014 they always lack behind however Honda is gaining massively despite entered a year later than other manufacturers
Honda is a giant manufacturer you just can't underestimate them
and for honda well .. RBR is the best chassis on the grid iam sure Honda will offer them many benefits features and advantages to guarantee their partnership .. just look at that BEAST of chassis stuffed a drs open mclaren.

they both RBR and Honda will be a perfect fit.

[Talisman]

The elephant in the room is 2021, what has RBR planned for then? There are rumours that RBR, McLaren and Aston Martin will join forces and contribute funds for PU development but that is highly risky for all concerned. However it would also be risky for Honda to sign a two year works deal with RBR without confirming that Milton Keynes will be walking away for their own unit for 2021 onwards.

Those who claim it makes no sense to switch to Honda fail to understand that the decision makers are people. I think McLaren made a mistake switching to Renault, gaining about 10-15hp and losing $100 million a year in return. However the decision was made by people who felt the utter disappointment and probably not a little rage at being delivered a PU not fit for purpose back in early 2017 and I believe the decision was largely emotion driven. Likewise RBR clearly have confidence in their chassis and feel that they can compensate for an engine that is slightly less powerful than the Mercs but not as far back as the Renaults and they could do with the money Honda may provide. It would be silly to ignore the frustrations being built up by having several PU failures this season already that Renault has suffered whilst not having closed the power gap to Merc one bit. It would therefore be silly to ignore the lack of patience felt at Milton Keynes regarding their French partners.

Honda is a risk for RBR but they are not Renault and that is one hell of an advantage for the Japanese company. I think the decision could swing either way.

[Talisman]

Anyway I'd be really surprised if RBR switch to Honda for 2019. Honda PU is the worst and you cannot simply know their short-mid term prospect now or in the next several months, Honda should get more competitive but Renault will advance as well and always before Honda does (PU pecking order will not change in current PU era, gap b/w makers may or may not shrink), and RBR will have to throw away years of experience regarding Renault PU integration and reset everything for accommodating Honda which is just massive. Huge gamble, or much more than that. Only swap that makes sense is Merc or Ferrari.
Perhaps Aston Martin badged Merc PU is much more likely than Honda. I'd guess RBR will see out current engine reg era with Renault, and see how 2021 reg goes and wait for what VW will do.

Both McLaren and RBR have already found out that a Merc customer deal is off the table the hard way. I really don't think rebadging the name was the obstructing issue there and I don't see why it should be seriously considered as an option.

RBR only has two choices, Renault and Honda. I think its clear that Renault haven't improved as much as people have hoped, not at all in terms of power although reliability is better (not for RBR though!) compared to last year. Honda have shown a far steeper curve of improvement.

Exchanging PUs is always a risk but teams manage all the time with sufficient warning. The Red Bull group itself has plenty of experience of that so that would already be factored into their decision.

RBR is clearly serious about evaluating Honda, why else would they have bent over backwards to facilitate the exchange with McLaren and STR apart from to destabilise Woking?

[techman]

RBR is clearly serious about evaluating Honda, why else would they have bent over backwards to facilitate the exchange with McLaren and STR apart from to destabilise Woking?

the only real way of evaluating honda is to put the honda in a redbulll test mule or bench test it with the renault for comparision. cant compare with TR ,new drivers and still lacking in mechanical grip and aero compared to big sister.

[Talisman]

Red Bull can access all the data they need already without either engine going anywhere near a car.

Anyway their decision will likely rely on factors other than the engines just as much.

[PlatinumZealot]

Christian Horner does not play around with his teams success. He will not pull the trigger until there is absolute proof that Honda will be the better engine than Renault in 2019. The Renault is not the most powerful now, but he is winning races with it - and upgrades are coming soon - so he will stretch out his decision as long as he can even if Renault tries to rush him. It would be highly risky to switch without actual proof. They don't need anything too fancy to get this proof either. All it takes is Honda Spec 5.0, or whatever it will be called, on the dyno before summer. The ball is in Honda's court.