Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[diffuser]

The coolers are bigger than last year too. So McLaren were really stifling that engine.

2015,2016,2017,2018

That was still the UniPipe Exhaust

[MrPotatoHead]

The coolers are bigger than last year too. So McLaren were really stifling that engine.

Or given the issues that TR had with cooling last year they are playing it safe this year.

[JonoNic]

Wouldn't over cooling an engine kill some of its power?

[MrPotatoHead]

They won’t over cool it.
If they need to they will block off cooling to get the temps where they need to be.
But you can’t add cooling easily if you are too marginal to begin with.

[NL_Fer]

Wouldn't over cooling an engine kill some of its power?

Nah just increase drag of the chassis.

[PlatinumZealot]

Wouldn't over cooling an engine kill some of its power?

You can make more power with a bigger inter-cooler as long as fuel atomization is maintained. As for the radiator you want it to be "right size".
If the engine is inefficient you need to reject more heat so if your cylinder wall temperature is to be maintained more radiator cooling will be needed.

[restless]

... and more efficient engine - less cooling needed, thus the win-win with advanced ignition methods

[GhostF1]

I'd say the cooling issues for Honda would more likely be directed at the ERS. So MGU's and energy system rather than the ICE itself.

[muramasa]

I just wish Honda were more open about updates and improvements.

It would be good to know before the F1 official Friday afternoon document whats been changed.

I know it's all about making sure your rivals know as little as possible but for the fans it's great when you hear some technical nuggets such as "yeah we've been able to get the MGU-H deployment to work better because of x". In the paddock there can't be that many secrets anyway.

That (or much more than that) is what they've been doing ever since 2015. For every updates, we know the rough details, for example about 2016, they started using PU more aggressively from Sochi, the TC upgrades for Canada which improved harvesting efficiency and made deployment roughly on par with others, if not totally on par nor superior, but sacrificed ICE power, inlet plenum and ICE upgrade for GB which recovered the aformentioned ICE power loss, TC and ICE upgrade for Spa which improved both ICE power and deployment, etc etc.
Either at the v end 2016 or v beginning of 2017, Hasegwa said that they gained roughly 0.5sec throughout 2016 season, and the same amount between 2015 and the beginning of 2016 as well, but rivals have achieved more gains than Honda
http://www.as-web.jp/f1/82011/2


In 2017 the initial spec had cliff in torque curve at lower rpm range which was the cause of oscillation/vibration, introduced the inlet plenum upgrade in Spain to resolve the issue, the persistent MGU-H issue was due to oil/water mist entering from intake damaging bearing, which was due to filling more oil, which was due to oil circulation issue, which was due to unconventional oil tank, which was due to compressor moved out of V, revised the entire oil system with Spa upgrade to address the specific issue, improved the situation but not yet fully resolved the issue as seen in MGU-H issue encountered again in the US.
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/free/index.p ... 2522&tt=-1
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/free/index.p ... 0977&tt=-1
of course elongated shaft was one of the cause as well
https://jp.motorsport.com/f1/news/%E3%8 ... 8A-984114/

Spa ICE upgrade improved the torque at lower rpm range, gaining power equivalent to one Kei car (Kei car is a compact car standard in Japan. Typically Kei cars have 60-90Nm of torque)
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... &no=112480

Spec3.8 gained 0.1-0.2sec from 3.7 and 0.3-0.4sec from 3.5
http://www.racer.com/f1/item/145573-hon ... ance-gains

Nakamura (ex-chief engineer) explained that at Mexico they would have to use TC at very high rpm in order to compensate the 20% air loss from higher altitude due to new blade config of TC, but the rpm range exceeded the safety range so couldnt use it, but they managed to figure out the usage that enabled them to circumvent and compensate the loss so that the actual loss was compressed to 1/3rd of the original estimation and that's why they were relatively competitive at Mexico
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/free/index.p ... &no=115051

Also "extra harvest" fully introduced from Monza improved deployment significantly (see my post last month)


Almost all of them in "reveal as you go" style, and these examples are just offhand, very quick and crude one.

[MrNoo]

The rules don't break down what is legal as far as an Injector goes surprisingly.
But if I were to speculate my interpretation would be that the Injector could have directionality to the spray through different orifices but could only contain a single coil and a single feed.

Old diesel Ferguson Tractors (MF35) have pre-chambers and a port through to the main piston/bore, the injectors fire out of 2 holes within the nozzle, one into the pre-chamber and t'other down through the port towards the piston. Pistons being flat topped and the head completely flat with no dish in it. Obviously they rely on spring pressure and pressure in the fuel line to release the charge and not coils etc. So effectively the same principle as you all discuss but nearly 60 years ago, that's progress for you!!

[Rodak]

I just wish Honda were more open about updates and improvements.

Muramasa is absolutely correct. The only engine manufacturer to be open about what they have done, to provide side by side pictures of the engines each season, and to explain their approach has been Honda. Everyone else is closed mouth and secret. Thanks Honda, you've been keeping it interesting.

[anthonyfa18]

I just wish Honda were more open about updates and improvements.

It would be good to know before the F1 official Friday afternoon document whats been changed.

I know it's all about making sure your rivals know as little as possible but for the fans it's great when you hear some technical nuggets such as "yeah we've been able to get the MGU-H deployment to work better because of x". In the paddock there can't be that many secrets anyway.

That (or much more than that) is what they've been doing ever since 2015. For every updates, we know the rough details, for example about 2016, they started using PU more aggressively from Sochi, the TC upgrades for Canada which improved harvesting efficiency and made deployment roughly on par with others, if not totally on par nor superior, but sacrificed ICE power, inlet plenum and ICE upgrade for GB which recovered the aformentioned ICE power loss, TC and ICE upgrade for Spa which improved both ICE power and deployment, etc etc.
Either at the v end 2016 or v beginning of 2017, Hasegwa said that they gained roughly 0.5sec throughout 2016 season, and the same amount between 2015 and the beginning of 2016 as well, but rivals have achieved more gains than Honda
http://www.as-web.jp/f1/82011/2


In 2017 the initial spec had cliff in torque curve at lower rpm range which was the cause of oscillation/vibration, introduced the inlet plenum upgrade in Spain to resolve the issue, the persistent MGU-H issue was due to oil/water mist entering from intake damaging bearing, which was due to filling more oil, which was due to oil circulation issue, which was due to unconventional oil tank, which was due to compressor moved out of V, revised the entire oil system with Spa upgrade to address the specific issue, improved the situation but not yet fully resolved the issue as seen in MGU-H issue encountered again in the US.
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/free/index.p ... 2522&tt=-1
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/free/index.p ... 0977&tt=-1
of course elongated shaft was one of the cause as well
https://jp.motorsport.com/f1/news/%E3%8 ... 8A-984114/

Spa ICE upgrade improved the torque at lower rpm range, gaining power equivalent to one Kei car (Kei car is a compact car standard in Japan. Typically Kei cars have 60-90Nm of torque)
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/pc/free/inde ... &no=112480

Spec3.8 gained 0.1-0.2sec from 3.7 and 0.3-0.4sec from 3.5
http://www.racer.com/f1/item/145573-hon ... ance-gains

Nakamura (ex-chief engineer) explained that at Mexico they would have to use TC at very high rpm in order to compensate the 20% air loss from higher altitude due to new blade config of TC, but the rpm range exceeded the safety range so couldnt use it, but they managed to figure out the usage that enabled them to circumvent and compensate the loss so that the actual loss was compressed to 1/3rd of the original estimation and that's why they were relatively competitive at Mexico
http://f1sokuho.mopita.com/free/index.p ... &no=115051

Also "extra harvest" fully introduced from Monza improved deployment significantly (see my post last month)


Almost all of them in "reveal as you go" style, and these examples are just offhand, very quick and crude one.

so if last year honda end the season with a Honda RA617H spec 3.8, this year it is running a Honda RA618H is spec 4.0 pu with toro rosso.

[fellowhoodlums]

I stand corrected. I think what i was getting at was everything is retrospective. I would be good to get the detail on a Thu or Fri about what's coming from all engine manufacturers. Appreciate the secrecy etc but the paddock knows pretty quickly and the fans want more info.

[anthonyfa18]

yess honda is using esso fuel
http://en.hondaracingf1.com/insights/th ... =undefined

[godlameroso]

Never mind the fuel I wonder what kind of hardware updates they'll have in a month. New injectors? New prechamber? New heads with revised ports? Higher compression pistons?