2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[Tommy Cookers]

yes conventionally it would be the other way round

but running at high slip (ie just below the conventional torque peak) the torque will .....
rise at the outer wheel as its relative rpm increases and slip decreases and .....
fall at the inner wheel as its relative rpm decreases and slip increases

voltage and frequency are of course mapped giving continuous and independent management of slip and torque
high slip is less efficient electrically but at times is more effective


a synchronous-type MG of suitable design has more scope for these favourable variations of torque by passive means

[Cold Fussion]

Freeze the ICE, uncap MGU tech. That is real road relevance. Piston assisted turbine generators with AWD KERS.

Is it though? I get the feeling we're on the tail end of this tech being mass market relevant because of the ever impending switch to EVs. Five years from now it's a real possibility that 50% of new models will be EVs. This tech possibly to expensive to ever find its way into regular models.

[johnny vee]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... e-1032975/

The FIA has introduced a further clampdown on improving performance via oil burning by expressly forbidding F1 teams from replenishing oil systems during qualifying.

The intention of the latest clarification is to enable FIA technical delegate Jo Bauer and his team to properly monitor oil consumption during the session where teams have the most to gain by pushing the rules to the limits and boosting performance, especially on the critical laps in Q3.
The FIA has now made it clear that teams cannot add oil or transfer it from an auxiliary oil tank to any part of the lubrication system during qualifying.

...but then the article ends with this
“Exceptions to the above may however be granted on specific occasions following a request from the team concerned, any such exception will be made at the sole discretion of the FIA technical delegate.”

[gruntguru]

Shouldn't be a problem provided replenishment is monitored and accurately measured by an official.

[johnny vee]

Do we know who was replenishing oil in qualy at Baku?
I seem to remember that Ferrari were, I do not know about Mercedes.

I reckon we will see in Spain if this hampers Ferrari more that Merc...

[AJI]

Freeze the ICE, uncap MGU tech. That is real road relevance. Piston assisted turbine generators with AWD KERS.

Is it though? I get the feeling we're on the tail end of this tech being mass market relevant because of the ever impending switch to EVs. Five years from now it's a real possibility that 50% of new models will be EVs. This tech possibly to expensive to ever find its way into regular models.

Are you talking full electric or hybrid?
There's no way the current infrastructure could handle a massive switch to full EV. However, I assume Elon Musk's plan for world domination has an end game in the form of controlling all the electricity in the world...

[Cold Fussion]

Freeze the ICE, uncap MGU tech. That is real road relevance. Piston assisted turbine generators with AWD KERS.

Is it though? I get the feeling we're on the tail end of this tech being mass market relevant because of the ever impending switch to EVs. Five years from now it's a real possibility that 50% of new models will be EVs. This tech possibly to expensive to ever find its way into regular models.

Are you talking full electric or hybrid?
There's no way the current infrastructure could handle a massive switch to full EV. However, I assume Elon Musk's plan for world domination has an end game in the form of controlling all the electricity in the world...

Well most manufacturers are committing to like 50-100% EV by the mid 20s so with that in mind I think there is a very little limited window the turbine recovery to become a road technology.

[AJI]

Is it though? I get the feeling we're on the tail end of this tech being mass market relevant because of the ever impending switch to EVs. Five years from now it's a real possibility that 50% of new models will be EVs. This tech possibly to expensive to ever find its way into regular models.

Are you talking full electric or hybrid?
There's no way the current infrastructure could handle a massive switch to full EV. However, I assume Elon Musk's plan for world domination has an end game in the form of controlling all the electricity in the world...

Well most manufacturers are committing to like 50-100% EV by the mid 20s so with that in mind I think there is a very little limited window the turbine recovery to become a road technology.

So, are you suggesting that there will be a sufficient upgrade to the electricity grid in this timeframe to support the target? You're talking pure EV's yeah? Not hybrids?

[Big Tea]

There must be someone here who know the answer, its the knowledge hub of the world

In layman's terms if possible, how much 'less' electricity will a 2020 plug in ev take to charge and cover a common commute than a 2000 equivalent would have done?

Are things getting closer to reality or are the days of full ev still far off due to the scale of requirement?

[AJI]

There must be someone here who know the answer, its the knowledge hub of the world

In layman's terms if possible, how much 'less' electricity will a 2020 plug in ev take to charge and cover a common commute than a 2000 equivalent would have done?

Are things getting closer to reality or are the days of full ev still far off due to the scale of requirement?

The grid in most countries can only just cope with the current demands, in a lot if cases it can't meet current peak demands...
I always thought Elon Musk's EVolution ideas were fanciful, but if he's selling the electricity to power them (heavily subsided by the government in the name of being 'green' of course) then I take my hat off to him... The long con at its best.
Vanderbilt would be proud.

[henry]

The ERS power unit flow diagram in the tech regs has the following statement:


Control of Energy Management:
- One sensor is connected to measure all electrical energy into and out of the Energy Store
- One sensor is connected to measure all electrical energy into and out of the MGU-K
- The DC-DC converter may only consume power. This will be verified by inspection.


The question is how do they know which path energy energy is flowing?

If they are only making these two measurements they must surely do some time dependent and synchronised integrating of them. If they don’t it would be impossible for Honda to deploy “extra harvest”.

Similarly, to measure the SOC and ensure it doesn’t vary by more than 4 MJ “any time the car is on the track” they must integrate between a start and stop point. I wonder when these are? Engine Start to engine stop? Leave garage to engine stop? Or do they reset every lap, as for the K, in which case teams could ignore the “any time” clause and charge up enough to do multiple laps in qualification.

Am I missing something?

[godlameroso]

SOC is triggered by the timing line, or the entry and exit of the pits. All ERS energy flows through the control electronics anyways, so that's an easy place to take all your measurements.

SOC is independent of battery capacity, SOC is referenced to ES -> MGU-K upon crossing the start finish line. The start/finish timing line is a laser, whenever the car triggers that laser it's SOC. On the driver's steering wheel there are readouts for both battery capacity, and ES-> MGU-K/lap.



At the bottom of the steering wheel you can see Vettel's battery capacity, and at :50 you can see him check the lap SOC.

[henry]

SOC is triggered by the timing line, or the entry and exit of the pits.

What do you mean by “SOC is triggered”? Is SOC reset to zero and as long as the SOC doesn’t exceed 4 MJ above that during the next lap it’s legal? That would provide a method to accumulate absolute, as opposed to relative, SOC over a series of laps. That’s not what the regulation says.

All ERS energy flows through the control electronics anyways, so that's an easy place to take all your measurements.

Obviously that’s the case. For regulation enforcement only 2 measurements are made. They are both integrals over time. My observation was that they need to be synchronised otherwise any flow into or out of ES might be interpreted as coming from or going to the MGU-K. If they are not synchronised the ”extra harvest” route MGU-K > MGU-H > ES would be measured as direct K to ES, and would bring no benefit.

SOC is independent of battery capacity, SOC is referenced to ES -> MGU-K upon crossing the start finish line. The start/finish timing line is a laser, whenever the car triggers that laser it's SOC. On the driver's steering wheel there are readouts for both battery capacity, and ES-> MGU-K/lap.

Agreed. I don’t understand what you mean by SOC is referenced... do you mean the end SOC is beginning plus Integral of K?

How would battery capacity help the driver? Surely they only need to know available discharge.

At the bottom of the steering wheel you can see Vettel's battery capacity, and at :50 you can see him check the lap SOC.

I interpret the bar graph at the bottom as showing total ES to MGU-K available and the percentage used. The percentage goes to 100 at the end of the lap.

Thanks for input but I still don’t understand how the two measurements made enforce the regulations, or even how to interpret the regulation itself.

[godlameroso]

5.2.2 Energy flows, power and ES state of charge limits are defined in the energy flow diagram shown in Appendix 3 of these regulations. When the car is on the track a lap will be measured on each successive crossing of the timing line, however, when entering the pits the lap will end, and the next one will begin, at the start of the pit lane (as defined in the F1 Sporting Regulations).



Nowhere in the regulations or this image is the capacity of the ES described at all.

In one lap around the circuit, the ES cannot send more than 4MJ of energy to the MGU-K, this is what the regulations call state of charge. It cannot send more while the car is out on track, and it cannot be charged in the pits. If the total capacity of the energy cells was 4MJ, and you depleted the entire 4MJ in a lap you'd have a bricked battery. They run the battery down to 20% that's what the little red part in the bar at the bottom of the steering wheel signifies. They don't want to run the battery in the red for too long as it increases the likelihood of bricking it, or worse dendrification.

[stevesingo]

5.2.2 Energy flows, power and ES state of charge limits are defined in the energy flow diagram shown in Appendix 3 of these regulations. When the car is on the track a lap will be measured on each successive crossing of the timing line, however, when entering the pits the lap will end, and the next one will begin, at the start of the pit lane (as defined in the F1 Sporting Regulations).

https://statics.sportskeeda.com/wp-cont ... 24x606.jpg

Nowhere in the regulations or this image is the capacity of the ES described at all.

In one lap around the circuit, the ES cannot send more than 4MJ of energy to the MGU-K, this is what the regulations call state of charge. It cannot send more while the car is out on track, and it cannot be charged in the pits. If the total capacity of the energy cells was 4MJ, and you depleted the entire 4MJ in a lap you'd have a bricked battery. They run the battery down to 20% that's what the little red part in the bar at the bottom of the steering wheel signifies. They don't want to run the battery in the red for too long as it increases the likelihood of bricking it, or worse dendrification.

If within the current weight limit of the ES a manufacturer used a 6MJ storage capacity. The driver could use the full 4MJ without the risk of bricking the ES>