Sick of minardi

bernard · Post 21 Aug 2004, 01:32

I'm starting to get really sick of minardi. A while ago i still thought they were a nice little team, that's just what F1 needs.
But now it's just constant whining. We want special this, we can't do that, we can't allow other qualifying formats because we won't be seen, we want mercedes or some other good company to sell us their engines with loss because we are so small, we will boycott races if this and that is allowed...

Now Stoddardt says they wan't to be able to race with this years car the beginning of next season, instead of a car that meets the new regulations. This should be allowed for small teams like Minardi and Jordan. It's funny how Stoddardt always speaks how Minardi and jordan need special treatment, but you rarely hear Jordan complaining about the same problems.
This is starting to resemble a joke. Minardi is not even seriously racing anymore, not F1 anyway. They just come around and drive the times they drive, getting something like four laps behind of everybody. Their only intention is to gather money. If they don't even have to drive or make cars to get it, all the better.
I say stop making special rules for minardi, this is not a playground. You can't cope with the hard, competitive world of formula1? Then what are you still doing here, this is he wrong racing series for you. You can go get sympathy elsewhere, I watch Formula1 to see some racing.

bernard · Post 21 Aug 2004, 02:19

This post came out a little more aggressive than i meant. Sorry.

Having a bit of a bad day. But you get the idea, just imagine the post with kinder words

sharkie17 · Post 21 Aug 2004, 04:11

i like frenchmen when they get aggressive. keep it up

anyway, you are right. i cant wait until somebody buys out Minardi and make it at least half ass competitive or at least stop all the whining. You figured they knew what they were getting into when they entered motor sports premiere racing league... To me, their intentions are more insidious than Jaguars (whos in it for name recognition and such). Minardis in it to squeeze some money. Oh well, what can you do?

tempest · Post 21 Aug 2004, 08:35

Sorry guys, have to disagree. True, stoddart is a bit of a whiner. Blame it on him coming from melbourne and having to live in englend. But I dont get how Minardi can be there to MAKE money. They are spending something like 40 million this season to be --- . Since thats not even 10 percent of ferraris budget I think they are doing ok. Even Jaguar are spending 120 mill. If they had more money then they would be going faster to get even more sponsors.

Remember that teams like Jordan and Minardi give a lot of drivers their start into formula 1. Of the current ranks up and comers, Only Kimi didnt start wih Minardi. Alonso and Webber both started out with them.

We need the little teams. If you want to see some racing by kicking teams out then their is another team you need to think about as well. I cant remember their name, but they paint their cars red.

Monstrobolaxa · Post 21 Aug 2004, 10:07

Well Tempest is right....Minardi is doing a fabulose job with theur 44 million.....try making a Williams or a Ferrari win with that amout of money...probably it wouldn't even be enbough for the salaries! I jus read in a book I got today "Winning the Buisness of F1" and 10 years ago teams were winning the constructores championship with under 70 million dollars! And if you look back those were more or less competitive years...and with some overtaking.....could the problem not be aerodynamics or other vehicle dynamics issues, and the problem be the amout of money that Formula 1 is moving at the present time? (does who don't agree....think that development has to be financed some way!) A few years ago teams would think wisely about some kind of change to be done on the car....nowadays they'll just test 100 diferent things and use the best one they find!

bernard · Post 21 Aug 2004, 14:44

I wouldn't necessarily kick Minardi out, but I would like to see people stop patting their head. Minardi is a team just as any other, it is an investment on Stoddardts behalf. The rules should be the same for all, you shouldn't keep somebody in just because they give people a nice launch to F1. The fact that minardi is the starting place for many people is exactly what Stoddardt is blackmailing everybody with, and you have fallen for it.Judging by that logic there wouldn't be F1 without minardi, because no new drivers and engineers would appear. The old ones would die and F1 would die with them... Minardi is not the only way into F1. Allow teams to buy cars from other manufacturers and you would within a few years have something like five new teams. No need for Minardi and their threats then.
If minardi can't win on their own then that's their problem. What do you expect if you aren't willing to cough up some more cash. If you're cheap then don't expect good results.
And if were planning to drag minardi behind with making them their own set of rules and competition, then we might just as well put a hundred kg extra weight on ferrari, because Mclaren can't compare to their speed. They don't have the money or speed ferrari has, so let's give them a rocket engine. After all, F1 isn't about racing and business, it's about good will and feeling good.

sharkie17 · Post 22 Aug 2004, 18:08

lol.... Minardi is doing FABULOUS with their 44 million?

let see, i have to say one thing for them.... they are consistent just like Ferrari... consistently at the back of the grid.

like i posted earlier, if you want more competitive grid, give each team a budget. (kinda like salary cap in American football)

Post 23 Aug 2004, 00:20

I really dare to disagree with you bernard, what is actually wrong with trying to do a good job with the little money there is?

Sure they can probably do a little better, but then again they aren't very lucky too, having that problem with Brunner a few years ago, then now an engineer that went... and for sure Stoddart is a little loud in the talking, but it's kind of interesting to hear it live, instead of having to do with a reworked press release.

The proposal to allow buying chassis, well Minardi would buy one for sure, so there is no reason to think why they would quit F1 at that time.

I keep having sympathy for Minardi...

bernard · Post 23 Aug 2004, 00:40

Tomba wrote: The proposal to allow buying chassis, well Minardi would buy one for sure, so there is no reason to think why they would quit F1 at that time.

But then other teams would emerge and there would be no harm of minardi dropping out, so people would stop letting them go with things. They would finally have to meet the regulations others do. Stoddart couldn't blackmail others anymore, because their dropping out wouldn't be much of an issue, so they would finally have to do something instead of just appearing to the races. At that time I bet Stoddart would cash out and Minardi could finally get an owner that cares about the sport instead of money and fame.

pompelmo · Post 23 Aug 2004, 01:34

If all teams would have 44mill, minardi should be like today's Ferrari!

axle · Post 23 Aug 2004, 23:23

While he does winge insessantly, Paul Stoddart's team are under the kosh.

They, and Jordan, are the only teams that are, for now, independent from Motor Manufacturers. And for them to even be at the races is a testament to there abilities.

I have to agree that the FIA's lack of decisiveness in the rule changes, will they won't they ordeal is going to count agains the teams with less resources.

F1 is about being a constructor, so I don't think shared chassis' are the way to go, but I would like to see both Jordan and Minardi supplied with good engines, and with each engine lasting a couple of races the costs should come down in this area. Harder tyres, and just a roll hoop instead of an air intake on top and non carbon brakes would be a good start for next year and wouldn't impact too severely on the smaller teams and their limited resources.

dumrick · Post 24 Aug 2004, 00:02

Stoddard is just doing what he should: the big teams try always to grab the big bucks, he tries to make the pressure to have a slice of the pie.

It is really a matter of corporate strategy, has we are talking purely about bussiness...

I don't think also that he's getting rich with Minardi...

j4kwan · Post 24 Aug 2004, 00:39

i would like to see F1 hot shots like Ross Brawn, Rinland, Newey , Anderson, who don't need the money - perhaps when they are going into semi-retirement - join Minardi and work for free!!

it would be awesome to see what they can pull off with $50mil and two rookies...

may sound like a charity-case, but who cares, let's make history

rodders · Post 24 Aug 2004, 10:42

ok take away Minardi / Jordan / and even maybe Jaguar from the F1 teams that front up without a HOPE of winning !!

That means the grid is down to maybe 14 cars.. allow for mech. probs during the race and maybe 5- 6 cars finish..

Well all I can say is "Watching PAINT drying" is more exciting

bernard · Post 24 Aug 2004, 13:21

rodders wrote:ok take away Minardi / Jordan / and even maybe Jaguar from the F1 teams that front up without a HOPE of winning !!

That means the grid is down to maybe 14 cars.. allow for mech. probs during the race and maybe 5- 6 cars finish..

Well all I can say is "Watching PAINT drying" is more exciting

Yes. That is the current situation, and that is also the reason why minardi gets away with what they do. But should teams be able to buy cars, and the entering fee lowered or removed, we would see lots of new teams flowing in. Then people would no longer take Stoddarts complaining and would advice him to leave the field if he doesn't like the game.
And about buying cars... I think somebody proposed that teams who come to F1 and buy a car should move gradually to making their own car, in a timeline of three-four years or so. This way the step to entering F1 wouldn't be too high. Another important thing is removing the fee you have to pay to get into F1.
I think we could see something like 5-6 new teams within three years or so. And more would follow.
At current the only way to get in is to have a budget like Toyota has, and even with their budget the results aren't immedialetely very good.