JV-BAR connections

[marcush.]

well,anybody who looks at F1 in detail should appreciate what michael did and where his true strength are.
In contrast to Senna he has is act together in avery positive way outside the car,and his driving is just the icing on the cake.He would have been champion without that outstanding talentto drive the car that is sure,as he is a very hard working guy,and able to extract the most of all people around him without wearing them out.Maybe it is just a coincidence that he came across Ross Brawn,Rory Byrne so soon in his career,and went on to get to know Jean todt.
But you just have to see that any raceengineer he worked with ,they worked very well together at least they had success.And success came with Michael to Benetton and he took it with him to Ferrari.Of course he cannot design the actual car,and he might not even be the world best testdriver,but sure as hell he is absolutely delivering what is posssible on raceday ,yearin yearout,and he is spending the hours necessary to get the job done,and that is what motivates his team to make sure the thing lasts the distance.

[dumrick]

I totally agree!!! MS isn't, for sure, the most talented driver ever, but he is the most complete one and hard worker.

As far as JV goes, I can't help agreeing w/ marcush: the guy had a terrific career before joining BAR, and really showed off at Williams, and you can't take his merit away.
Besides, he is a hell of a racer, something I feel F1 is somehow lacking in, these days (can't help it, I was a Alesi fan! )

[sharkie17]

I totally agree!!! MS isn't, for sure, the most talented driver ever, but he is the most complete one and hard worker.

As far as JV goes, I can't help agreeing w/ marcush: the guy had a terrific career before joining BAR, and really showed off at Williams, and you can't take his merit away.
Besides, he is a hell of a racer, something I feel F1 is somehow lacking in, these days (can't help it, I was a Alesi fan! )

lol you guys crack me up with "MS isnt the best driver out there and MS isnt the most talented driver".

i guess its JUST his hard work and luck and good team that got him all those championships

[dumrick]

i guess its JUST his hard work and luck and good team that got him all those championships

In fact, I believe that today's Ferrari is the all-time best and better organised F1 team. Much credit should, IMO, go to Jean Todt, and Peugeot shall be very ashaimed of having discarded his project of doing a full F1 team (chassis+engine), having pushed him out to Ferrari.

And, if you read again my post, you'll see that I don't say that he his not the best. I say that there were more TALENTED drivers. If you don't take advantage of your talent and get beaten by a harder-working guy, is your fault. Just see, back in Mercedes years, that HH Frentzen was considered faster than Schumi.
Other thing: I don't know if, in that corner of the world, you've ever heard or read about Jim Clark and other guys like that. If you had any historical perspective about F1, you could refute my opinion, but not just reply that way.

[sharkie17]

Dumrick, i got what you were saying... but look at it this way... Obviously there were very talented drivers in the past as well as now... but do you think that its fair to compare drivers like Clark, Stewart, Fangio to a present crop of drivers? they drove a different kind of machinery back than and it just doesnt compare to now. Just because modern formula 1 car takes out lot of the driver input doesnt mean that it takes less talent to pilot them. Comparing past talented drivers to present one is just unfair. (because there is NO WAY we can objectively compare them).

and of course credit goes to the manufacturers!!! thats what makes a team, the machine and the driver. The fact that Ferrari made the car reliable and fast for MS... thats what is making them unbeatable right now.

[bernard]

Well here's an interesting new twist. JV said he might drive NASCAR next season, if he doesn't get a position in F1. He said all the teambosses want him back, just not in their team! So he said in an interview: "At a point you think 'screw you, I'll do NASCAR'."
So... the seat for the BAR is anything but settled for next year. And judging by his comments the Sauber visit didn't go according to plan either.
About Bernie Ecclestone's support he said: "He's very positive," said JV, "but I'm still not in F1. If you need me, come get me. If not, don't say you need me."
I guess the only place he can get for next year is Jaguar. Sauber might be a tiny option too. Jaguar isn't known as the richest or fastest team so I think we can count that out.
And about Hakkinen... does anybody remember Hakkinen's overtake from Schumi in the last Spa Gp? Now that's what I call a beauty. I had been thinking about that for a long time, but I couldn't remember where it happened.
Anyway, Hakkinen was driving behind Schmacher, when schumi had to overtake another driver. When Schumacher started taking the guy on a lap from the left, Hakkinen speeded around from the other, the dirty side, and overtook Schumi and the other guy! A true champion. Name two of Schumacher best overtakes from the last, oh, say 55 races, which I think is the time he has driven without a technical failure. I can't think of a single one.

[bernard]

here's the whole story:
http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=60824

[sharkie17]

i do remember that overtake!

JV in NASCAR? wow, i dont see how any team would even consider him seeing as he wants a lots of money... (especially when there are more qualified drivers available from NASCAR's sister series...)

[Aris]

Actually MS is the most tallented, the most efficient driver of his era. The numbers do speak for themselves. Yes, he maybe drives for Ferrari. But where was Ferrari before he joined them? He did put them together did he not?
Whether we like it or not, MS did contribute humongously into making that team the team that they are today and this is one of the attiributes that make him the extraordinary personality of the sport that he is today.

He has thrushed every record but 2 of the books. And by the time he retires those records will have perish.

Anyways.

As for JV, I doubt he'll ever come back in F1, I doubt that noone wants him back. Maybe it's the salary, maybe it's the attitude. All he ever did is a Championship that he achieved with a vastly superior car that he actually almost lost to MS. Yes, there will be people that will jump the gun screaming Jerez. But truth is that MS Ferrari was inferior that year to JV's car and yet JV almost lost the Championship. Since then he sunk to mediocrity. People will say that BAR was responsible for it. I will say that Schumacher left Benneton for Ferrari who was a sad picture at that time, but look where Ferrari is now. And BAR flourished after JV was fired.
No, JV's leaving BAR wasn't the reason that BAR is going well - However I doubt that if JV was to come back to BAR, he could challenge MS. He simply is mediocre for a driver.

MHO.

[tempest]

Dont kid yourself thinking that schumi;s move to ferrari was anything like JV's move to BAR. Ferarri were sick of losing and were happy to spend whatever they needed to spend to have a competitive team. They had quality race engineers and their own wind tunnel and testing facilities. As well as this he brought Ross and Rory with him. JV on the other hand went to a brand new team with none of the above, and all he had was Craig Pollack (I dont htink this is an advantage). Maybe he wasnt good enough to win the championship, but he was good enough to take the fight up to those in cars that were clearly better and the sponsors like him too. Jensen and Taku owe him a lot for developing that team to what it was before DR.

Whatever you think of that championship, He is still an absolutely top class driver who is ten million times faster than we'll ever be and he deserves his place in F1 far more than many who have been on the grid in the past and some who are still their (Ralf, Klien). That'll do..... I have to study for my Hydraulics test tomorrow.

[bernard]

Somehow the posts from schumacher fans are always the same. You don't see a single bad thing about him, he is just simply the best, the greatest, fastest, funniest, best looking, richest, smartest man on earth. Praise him!

You said that Schumacher made ferrari as fast as it is today...
Ferrari wanted to win again, they were willing to spend lots of cash to achieve that. So first they needed a driver to build the success around. Enter Schumacher. Then the needed the actual team that makes them fast. Enter half of Benettons staff, including some of the best racing engineers and designers of our era.
Then they worked for years making the car good, as this doesn't happen overnight. Full credits to Schumi for hanging in there.
And finally they got the car together, and after a few years of fine tuning we are here. It wasn't Schumacher that made the car or the engine. There is very little the driver can do if the car is crap but to hope the engineers get it right. A prime example of this at the moment is Raikkonen and Montoya. Both brilliant drivers. But do you suggest that in the same position Schumacher sat down at a table and redesigned the ferrari and what do you know, it won the worldchampionship? For the credits of ALL of Schumachers worldchampionships you're gonna have to look elsewhere.
This has been said a million times before, but you don't have to be that great of a driver to win worldchampionships in Schumacher's position. You seem to forget how different the situation at ferrari is comparing to others. For example seeing barrichello trying to overtake Schumi makes you think something is wrong in the team, why do they alow Barrichello to get that close, not to mention trying to overtake? And then Barrichello almost bumps into Schumacher and the guys at the pitwall say "knock it off, that's enough for now, Rubens."

[Monstrobolaxa]

Well I do agree with you in some way bernard......but I'm not a Schumy fan....I'm a Damon Hill (though retired) and a Montoya fan.....but I do agree that to some extent Ferrari's sucess is down to Schumacher.

I'm finishing reading a book called: "Winning The Bussiness of Formula 1", altough it was written 1998....in the Ferrari chapter it does mention that Ferrari (motorsport section) was on the verge of clossing and that the FIAT group gave Ferrari a deadline too suceed....or else close. Montezemolo decided to invest and put toghether the budget and gave Schummy total liberty to decide who he wanted in the team. Schumacher in a interview said that he was quite disgusted by Ferraris facilities! Since 1950/60's Ferrari hadn't evoluted their factory equipment was from those days. I'm sure he didn't tell them what to do and what to buy....but I'm sure he open Montezemolos eyes to the fact that Ferrari were still working in 1950/60 and that Benetton (were he was the year before) was working 30/40 years ahead.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Schumi isnt the most talented driver ever, Senna, Clark and Fangio beat him on that count for a start. But I think Martin Brundle summed it up in a good way. He said that to his mind Senna had a greater god given talent, but schumi applies it in a slightly better way. In short schumi isnt as talented as some, but he works so hard at it, he is the most Complete driver.

These past five years must have been great for all schumi fans (I am not a schumi fan lol) But to those of us who aren't fans of MS, whether we like it or not, we are witnessing something truely increadible. Besides...look on the bright side, even HE will retire......eventually. LOL.

[Guest]

! A true champion. Name two of Schumacher best overtakes from the last, oh, say 55 races, which I think is the time he has driven without a technical failure. I can't think of a single one.

This is a very pompous statement ...

1) Everyone can complain and and say "but it's the car" or "it's the whatever else" ... you can say what you want, he on the other hand can backup his claims of being the best with 7 world championship titles.

2) One race in particular comes to mind .. US GP 2003. Remember that one? Started from 7th I think? Then the rain, then less rain, then more rain, downpour ... in the end he one, that was an amazing race, they don't call him the Rain Meister for nothing, no one but no one can drive in the rain like he can. He passed so many cars that race, it was nuts.

I was at the 2003 Mtl GP during qualifying/practice when it poured, you could easily see the difference between him and every other driver on the track, I was at the hair pin so this was a tricky bit of driving. So that's one that I can remember, and it was in the rain.

Also I'm getting sick of people "blaming" the car that he drives, well here is a newsfalsh, he helped design it. He is Ferrari's feedback driver, hell he's the one that gave reccomendations about fine tuning the Enzo, and they were carried out. I read once that MS is the only driver that engineers adore working with because he knows what the problem is and always has ideas how to fix it, he's not just a robot like many others.

He's damn good, period. There could be better, but for now he is the best, someone else WAS the best, he is now the best. Watch for Kimi ... 23 years old this guy is the next Alesi, Hill, MS , whatever ...

my opinion of course

[bernard]

2) One race in particular comes to mind .. US GP 2003. Remember that one? Started from 7th I think? Then the rain, then less rain, then more rain, downpour ... in the end he one, that was an amazing race, they don't call him the Rain Meister for nothing, no one but no one can drive in the rain like he can. He passed so many cars that race, it was nuts.

That is the way it looks if you stare at the results of the race, but Raikkonen was taking a safe victory from the race untill it started raining, and all of a sudden all the Bridgestone drivers were 2 seconds a lap faster than Michelin drivers. This is a situation Michelin has managed to improve a little, but their wet tyres are still a million miles away from Bridgestone. So much for your rainmeister.

Also I'm getting sick of people "blaming" the car that he drives, well here is a newsfalsh, he helped design it. He is Ferrari's feedback driver, hell he's the one that gave reccomendations about fine tuning the Enzo, and they were carried out. I read once that MS is the only driver that engineers adore working with because he knows what the problem is and always has ideas how to fix it, he's not just a robot like many others.

I've heard a lot of these idiotic remarks. "Schumacher decides his own race strategies, and he changes them on the fly, while he is driving, depending on the race situation. He can feel if there is something wrong with the car many laps before the engineers even see it on their screens."
Truth is he is just another driver that is lucky to be the number one driver in the ferrari team with the current personnel onboard. And don't tell me he made ferrari that good because he didn't.