2018 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 11-13

[LM10]

At the beginning of this weekend, there a wide expectation that Mercedes would rely heavily on Softs, due to their tyre choices. Look where things stand!

Ok and what's your point?

The point is, the performance difference between SS and S was different for different teams. It's not like, Ferrari being faster on S means they would have been even faster on SS. They realized that their car isn't behaving well in SS and went for S, whereas Mercedes realized their car works well on SS and went with that for Q3!

True, but Ferrari not working well on SS doesn't change the fact that SS is a faster tyre than S. In the first run both Vettel and Kimi made huge mistakes. After that Ferrari went on S maybe because they didn't have enough time left to bring the SS in the right working range. Mercedes managed to do it.

[atanatizante]

Could someone tell me what was Lewis trying to say to Seb there?



I think he should get a reprimand, at least!!!

[Phil]

True, but Ferrari not working well on SS doesn't change the fact that SS is a faster tyre than S. In the first run both Vettel and Kimi made huge mistakes. After that Ferrari went on S maybe because they didn't have enough time left to bring the SS in the right working range. Mercedes managed to do it.

You are clearly grasping at straws here. The SS isnt working right on this track (overheats). It was very obvious in FP2 when the track surface was even warmer (40+ degrees). The softs were better for all teams, but differing tire allocations and race strategy factored in that not everyone used the soft for their Q3 runs. Obviously Mercedes was already quickest on the first Q3 run, so Ferrari took a gamble.

The difference between the SS is very very small on this track.

[nirvaand]

Just checked the weather forecast, chance of rain for race tomorrow just dropped from 43% to almost 8% in the last few hours. Chance of rain for the race looking increasingly bleak.

[Edax]

True, but Ferrari not working well on SS doesn't change the fact that SS is a faster tyre than S. In the first run both Vettel and Kimi made huge mistakes. After that Ferrari went on S maybe because they didn't have enough time left to bring the SS in the right working range. Mercedes managed to do it.

You are clearly grasping at straws here. The SS isnt working right on this track (overheats). It was very obvious in FP2 when the track surface was even warmer (40+ degrees). The softs were better for all teams, but differing tire allocations and race strategy factored in that not everyone used the soft for their Q3 runs. Obviously Mercedes was already quickest on the first Q3 run, so Ferrari took a gamble.

The difference between the SS is very very small on this track.

That makes the guys that made the tires in past days seem like magicians. With the exception of an odd Indianapolis weekend it was pretty much bolt on and go. A qualifier was just that, two laps of hair raising performance, no matter the track temperature, wind direction, or whatever excuses get thrown upon us nowadays.

This week Williams with all their F1 experience couldn’t get any of the tires to work. The pecking order shifts with a few degrees of track temperature. I wonder how many people the top teams have employed just to understand the tires, (talk about cost efficiency).

What is causing all these issues, Is it that the tires cannot keep up in the evolution of HP and downforce, or is it the concept of an engineered cliff that is making these tires so sensitive?

[LM10]

True, but Ferrari not working well on SS doesn't change the fact that SS is a faster tyre than S. In the first run both Vettel and Kimi made huge mistakes. After that Ferrari went on S maybe because they didn't have enough time left to bring the SS in the right working range. Mercedes managed to do it.

You are clearly grasping at straws here. The SS isnt working right on this track (overheats). It was very obvious in FP2 when the track surface was even warmer (40+ degrees). The softs were better for all teams, but differing tire allocations and race strategy factored in that not everyone used the soft for their Q3 runs. Obviously Mercedes was already quickest on the first Q3 run, so Ferrari took a gamble.

The difference between the SS is very very small on this track.

Do you think that Mercedes would have been even faster on Softs?

[SectorOne]

Regarding Pirelli changing the thickness of the compound:

"Such changes for specific events are unusual, but not unprecedented.
Pirelli requested a thinner tread for Spa and Monza in both 2011 and 2012."

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13522 ... 1-circuits

[Phil]

Well, it’s all good. Different compounds mean different characteristics. Performance change with track conditions. Obviously, the SS is a very soft tire. Put too much energy into it and it eventually overheats. The problem at this track seems to be that with the track layout, you may have the ideal temps at the beginning but then lose it towards the end. The soft is less sensitive and can be pushed longer and more consistent. Track temperatures vary too.

The only problem is that teams need to choose their allocations for the race well in advance, because Pirelli need to know what to manufacture and what to bring. In other words, they need to decide well before the actual weekend. Some get it right, some dont.

Evidently, Williams gambled the wrong way. The SS was useless in Winter testing, but some at the time felt it was due to the extremely cold temperatures and that it would ‘work’ once they got here in May...


@LM10; yes. Toto said as much post-race on the ORF broadcast. Not much though, probably. As i said, the difference was very small. Just look at Ricciardo (S) vs Max (SS).

[F1Krof]

True, but Ferrari not working well on SS doesn't change the fact that SS is a faster tyre than S. In the first run both Vettel and Kimi made huge mistakes. After that Ferrari went on S maybe because they didn't have enough time left to bring the SS in the right working range. Mercedes managed to do it.

You are clearly grasping at straws here. The SS isnt working right on this track (overheats). It was very obvious in FP2 when the track surface was even warmer (40+ degrees). The softs were better for all teams, but differing tire allocations and race strategy factored in that not everyone used the soft for their Q3 runs. Obviously Mercedes was already quickest on the first Q3 run, so Ferrari took a gamble.

The difference between the SS is very very small on this track.

Do you think that Mercedes would have been even faster on Softs?

That's an interesting question.

[Just_a_fan]

What is causing all these issues, Is it that the tires cannot keep up in the evolution of HP and downforce, or is it the concept of an engineered cliff that is making these tires so sensitive?

I think it's the FIA's/Liberty's desire to "maintain the show" and have artificially limited tyres. If the FIA asked them to, PIrelli could make tyres that are consistent and with decent life. But they are being asked to make a series of "window" tyres. The windows, which Pirelli have to decide on many weeks ahead of the race in order to have time to make the tyres, are susceptable to track conditions that aren't always as they might be expected from historic data. The result is tyres that some find hard to get in to the window whilst others are ok. At a different track / under slightly different conditions the positions are reversed.

It's making the teams' lives very difficult, especially the bottom end of the grid.

[Vettel165]

Oh dear.



Lauda: Thank you for brand new tyres, they worked.
Pirelli guy: No problem, from now on the same tyres will be used for the entire season but it wont be told to other teams.
Lauda: I appreciate it, dont worry you will get yours 1 million dollars on your bank account.
Pirelli guy: Ok its a deal, if you want even more durable tyres you can always ask for it. We can design the tyres around your car, so you can win again.
Lauda: Thats what we thought also.
Pirelli guy: We will meet again, secret meeting at Canada GP if things wont work for you in next races?
Lauda: Alees klar, auf wiedersehen.

[godlameroso]

Just checked the weather forecast, chance of rain for race tomorrow just dropped from 43% to almost 8% in the last few hours. Chance of rain for the race looking increasingly bleak.

It should be raining or drizzling now, and should continue until the morning, there's a small chance the track is damp come the race.

[makecry]

Just checked the weather forecast, chance of rain for race tomorrow just dropped from 43% to almost 8% in the last few hours. Chance of rain for the race looking increasingly bleak.

It should be raining or drizzling now, and should continue until the morning, there's a small chance the track is damp come the race.

Inters ---> Slicks would be ideal race tbh. I am not into wet races but changeable conditions make things exciting.

[Duderino]

Considering the different tyre specs compared to the Barcelona tests and the amount of upgrades from other teams, the team has done an absolutely stunning job. I believe they have improved with around ~1 second with this upgrade. Every single upgrade has been kept on the car. Just imagine how these upgrades might affect the race pace knowing how much it has done for the qualifying pace. Gotta give credit where credit is due!

[F1NAC]

Stop moaning. It wont change anything. Ferrari will rise again