petition to reduce aero grip

[rweiss]

Hi New member here


I have been following F1 now for some 20 years and am getting more and more frustrated at its state and it is time for the fans to lobby the decision makers who are ruining the sport


Aero grip and downforce is the single thing that is most killing F1, it has killed off overtaking and it must be changed to improve the racing spectacle


I have been in contact with the teams and the result is that a petition has been created that will be presented in person to the FIA once we have reached our target of 50,000 signatures


The petition was set up 10 mins ago and will run till the target is reached or the week before the Brazil GP whichever comes first


http://www.PetitionOnline.com/F1fans/petition.html


Please sign the petition for the FIA to reduce aero grip


Richard

[Guest]

Oh, I think it is wrong to reduce aero grip in common. it is a little bit more complicated.
what F1 needs is a profiled undertray like during the ground effect time but without skirts!!!! and at the same time the front and the rear wing surface has to be reduced.
You also have to ban ram-air intakes for the engine.
then we would see more overtaking.

[Steven]

Hello,

Racecar engineering has a simulation on how to improve passing in F1.
The result is that to increase passing, drag should increase and power must decrease. Downforce makes only a very small difference in overtaking possibilities following that simulation.

So why is downforce killing F1?

[sharkie17]

also, its not the aero grip or downforce that discourage overtaking, its the turbulence created by a F1 car that discourage overtaking. (i may be wrong but car immediately behind another car lose up to 30 percent of downforce or mechanical grip because of turbulence? )

[Guest]

they justy need more tracks like silverstone where in 2003 we saw some pretty good over taking and just more tracks in general where they have long blasts then some really really tight sections to put more emphasis on mechanical grip you'll see more passes coming if there is more tracks that really make mechanical grip number 1. i don't think cutting down the power and making the wing surfaces smaller will do it. because the top teams will just find another way to get it back in the wind tunnel which is why minardi has fallen back even further this year and jordan as well because they do not have the money to do R&D. the cars just have basically out grown the tracks. they just need to be slower in speeds and that is the only way i can see a long term slow down and more overtaking in the F1 races.

well complain about what i said now

[ShoelessJoe]

I would not waste my time on a petition that would NEVER introduce any change. Only the FIA can do that, and they are a lot smarter about it than the ordinary F1 fan. They are in contact with most F1 team's technical directors and principals on the new rule changes.
There is no way any respectable formula series would move away from wings since it is a way of regulating the cars. If wings were removed, engines sizes would have to be reduced to 1.5 liters or smaller to keep them from going 250+ mph. Sounds like a bit of a safety hazard, doesn't it? I sure as hell don't want to watch 5 million dollar Formula Fords and I doubt most people would also. Wings ARE NOT to blame for lack of passing in F1. Passing takes place in EVERY OTHER formula series with wings. The reason no passing takes place is the freedom of the well funded teams to spend millions on R&D that can gain them 10ths of seconds. Where teams like Minardi, Jordan and Jaguar don't so they get screwed. More viable options are: eliminate sidepod winglets, make a standard wing for all teams, place restrictions on material usage, etc.

[Guest]

Like what the white sock said, I don't think it's the aero killing overtaking. We've seen overtaking the past two years at Silverstone and recently at Hockenheim. I'd blame the lack of overtaking on the lack of development of all the underfunded teams. If you gave them 100-200 million a year more then they could possibly be something closer to the word "competetive" rather than slow, rolling billboards.

- West

[Guest]

The ratio of braking time to driver reaction time is low to allow overtaking under braking except where the cars approach very slow corners at high speeds. The notion of late braking to blow past the other car is absurd except under the above conditions. To get passing we need longer braking distances so a 0.1s represents sufficient distance to allow a pass without a crash. Remember amateurish Sato slamming into Barrichello. Get rid of carbon brakes, increase wheel and brake rotor diameter.

[ReubenG]

I can understand banning carbon-carbon brakes to decrease braking power, but increasing the brake diameter increases the maximum brake torque and hence decreases braking distances..? I'm not sure what the brake sizes were when discs were steel though...

[uzael]

I wonder why no one has tried to implement a hanford-esque device for formula one. Just some understated piece of bodywork that generates a ton of drag. That would solve a lot of the problems. Maybe some piece on the underside of the floor or at the back of the rear wing.

[sharkie17]

I wonder why no one has tried to implement a hanford-esque device for formula one. Just some understated piece of bodywork that generates a ton of drag. That would solve a lot of the problems. Maybe some piece on the underside of the floor or at the back of the rear wing.

why?

[uzael]

you could severly impact the amount of aero influence on the car if there was a device that sverly altered the drag co-effcieient. Means more drag and less speed overall.

[sharkie17]

i understand what it does, but why do that after doing all the aero work on the car? if you are going to implement such devices team would have to incorporate them into the design of the package...
Plus, its more important to reduce downforce rather than increasing drag.

[uzael]

I was referring to the governing body doing that to alter the aerodynamics of the cars. If you could cause a signficiant shift in the Draf CF, then teams would be forced to run less DF in order to make up speed lost on the straights. Functions like a reduction in engine power and a limitation on aero all in the same swoop.

[sharkie17]

I was referring to the governing body doing that to alter the aerodynamics of the cars. If you could cause a signficiant shift in the Draf CF, then teams would be forced to run less DF in order to make up speed lost on the straights. Functions like a reduction in engine power and a limitation on aero all in the same swoop.

if you reduce engine power like you said, you wouldnt need to put drag devices... plus, FIA wants to slow down cornering speed... only way you gonna do that is discourage current braking technique (meaning get rid of carbon brakes and discs) and reduce downforce.