Blue Flags

[santos]

Yesterday i saw in a video F1 news, and i saw a news that made me perplexed… FIA is considering removing the blue flags. Why are they considering that?

[LM10]

To make it more attractive in their opinion. But Charlie already told that he believes its' very unlikely most teams will accept that (unsurprisingly).
What a silly idea.

[jjn9128]

Yesterday i saw in a video F1 news, and i saw a news that made me perplexed… FIA is considering removing the blue flags. Why are they considering that?

Could you embed the video or give us a source?

Blue flags never used to be a thing, and they seem to be fairly unique to Europe centred racing - I don't believe Indycar/American racing uses them. Maybe it's to boost overtaking numbers... maybe it's because Charlie Whiting is fed up of Vettel/Hamilton/Raikkonen on the radio shouting "BLUE FLAGS BLUE FLAGS!!!" every time they get within 1km of a backmarker?! The former is more likely - if the leaders have to actually pass the backmarkers rather than be let through it could make the races more exciting.

[Bill_Kar]

In my opinion, it's too artificial and it won't work. Plus, without any rule considering backmarker overtaking, there could be a lot of talk happening behind the scenes between small teams and big teams. I think we don't need that.

[garyjpaterson]

Yeah while I like the idea of faster cars/drivers having to earn their way past backmarkers, there is one thing that prevents me from supporting this idea;

The relationship between back marker teams and front running teams.
Toro Rosso for example are far more likely to put up a fight with a Merc or Ferrari than a Red Bull. Similarly Haas or Sauber might have incentive to not hold up the Ferrari's.
The idea that drivers have to rely on skill to pass slower cars is great, but team politics ruins this, as some teams/drivers will get preferential treatment which creates an unfair playing field. At least with blue flags this bias between backmarkers and top teams is somewhat regulated and fair.

[jjn9128]

In my opinion, it's too artificial and it won't work. Plus, without any rule considering backmarker overtaking, there could be a lot of talk happening behind the scenes between small teams and big teams. I think we don't need that.

Oh imagine a Ferrari and a Merc coming up behind a Sauber/Haas, who is going to have the harder time?!

[Phil]

This should be quite fun at Monaco. Maybe they should do this just for one race (at Monaco) to demonstrate to themselves how smart they are.

[marmer]

Just ban defending from the slow cars but no requirement to actually slow down. For the fast car approaching

[Just_a_fan]

The blue flag used to just indicate that there was a car approaching from behind. It was a warning to the car in front that they might have someone diving up the side of them and thus was an attempt to reduce crashes. It was changed to help the leaders through because F1 cars aren't great at following close and you need a large lap time advantage to close and pass. It's possible that the leaders could be stuck in a Trulli-train for several laps. This might allow the leader to be caught and overtaken by someone behind. Now, you might think that's a fun idea, but it's a very artificial way of adding to the show. Of course, one might also take the view that the proposed aero changes will reduce the "following problem" and thus the leaders will be less troubled by back markers anyway.

If I were a backmarker (or even just a solid midfield runner) and was racing hard with someone for a few laps and had to suddenly jump off line to let a leader by, I would probably be pretty unhappy. That might cost my team a valuable point or two and thus income for next season.

In summary, I think if the new aero regs allow closer racing and significantly reduce the "following problem" then I don't see a reason not to dump the backmarker blue flag rule.

[Just_a_fan]

This should be quite fun at Monaco. Maybe they should do this just for one race (at Monaco) to demonstrate to themselves how smart they are.

Anyone else remember Coulthard and Bernoldi in Monaco in 2001? That's the reality of a place like Monaco without blue flags. Yes, I know Bernoldi and Coulthard were racing because Coulthard stalled on the grid and thus started from the back, but the McLaren was much faster than the Arrows but at Monaco that means nothing. In effect, you could have a backmarker pit at the end of lap 1 for new tyres (for example), come back out just in front of the leaders and then hold up the entire field for the rest of the race, effectively finishing a lap down but in front of the whole field. That's the real possibility of this rule change.

[santos]

Yesterday i saw in a video F1 news, and i saw a news that made me perplexed… FIA is considering removing the blue flags. Why are they considering that?

Could you embed the video or give us a source?

Blue flags never used to be a thing, and they seem to be fairly unique to Europe centred racing - I don't believe Indycar/American racing uses them. Maybe it's to boost overtaking numbers... maybe it's because Charlie Whiting is fed up of Vettel/Hamilton/Raikkonen on the radio shouting "BLUE FLAGS BLUE FLAGS!!!" every time they get within 1km of a backmarker?! The former is more likely - if the leaders have to actually pass the backmarkers rather than be let through it could make the races more exciting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BGGzNoa6g0&t

https://www.givemesport.com/1315255-fia ... ormula-one

[Phil]

In effect, you could have a backmarker pit at the end of lap 1 for new tyres (for example), come back out just in front of the leaders and then hold up the entire field for the rest of the race, effectively finishing a lap down but in front of the whole field.

I can do one better than that: No matter the track, imagine Max pitting for whatever reason on the first lap and becoming the back marker.

On a more serious note; This is a bad idea. Imagine the shitstorm if a lapped-car becomes involved in an accident with a car he's theoretically not racing for position. Or if a front-runner team (ab-) uses their second driver by pitting them into traffic and influencing the race from a lap behind. That would be fun.

[jjn9128]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BGGzNoa6g0&t

https://www.givemesport.com/1315255-fia ... ormula-one

Thanks for that. Sounds like Liberty/teams proposing it and FIA considering it rather than FIA wanting it. Guess someone important has to weigh up the pros and cons - there seem to be many of both!

[Big Tea]

(as J.A.F says) Blue flags are not a problem they are an aid. They have been around from the beginning and are needed to race properly

The problem arises from the additional tacked-on rules asked for and expanded by such as Senna and Schumacher who seemed to assume they had more right on the track than other cars.
The waved blue flag signifying there is a faster car coming up, be aware, do not obstruct is fine, the problem stems from the ruling 'its half a lap behind get out of the way before the next marshal post or you will be machinegunned'

Look how tail enders perform when they start in the top 8 out of position. The several seconds a lap they no longer loose often means they are competitive.
There used to be racers renowned for making ground on a follower or catching a leader during the passing of a tail-ender, but we have lost that now. (ironically the 2 drivers I mention were among the best) Blue flags are needed, but balance must be restored.

[Big Tea]

In effect, you could have a backmarker pit at the end of lap 1 for new tyres (for example), come back out just in front of the leaders and then hold up the entire field for the rest of the race, effectively finishing a lap down but in front of the whole field.

I can do one better than that: No matter the track, imagine Max pitting for whatever reason on the first lap and becoming the back marker.

On a more serious note; This is a bad idea. Imagine the shitstorm if a lapped-car becomes involved in an accident with a car he's theoretically not racing for position. Or if a front-runner team (ab-) uses their second driver by pitting them into traffic and influencing the race from a lap behind. That would be fun.

But this is obstruction. There are rules in place for it and the stewards can penalise for it. That is not what Blue flags are for.