2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

[diffuser]

If their weakness is long straights and low speed corners, then it's an aero issue through and through. It's not because of the suspension, although the weight distribution probably isn't ideal, I still think aero will solve their major problem. Right now it doesn't come on in a predictable way. At low speeds it's inconsistent and draggy at high speeds. It seems to work well in mid and high speed corners, as the McLaren isn't too shabby in sector 1 in Barcelona.

I think Aero will solves issues in a 130 KM corner but not a 80KM corner. There are only 2 such corners in Canada

[M840TR]

If their weakness is long straights and low speed corners, then it's an aero issue through and through. It's not because of the suspension, although the weight distribution probably isn't ideal, I still think aero will solve their major problem. Right now it doesn't come on in a predictable way. At low speeds it's inconsistent and draggy at high speeds. It seems to work well in mid and high speed corners, as the McLaren isn't too shabby in sector 1 in Barcelona.

Doesn't high speed corners dicatate aero prowess cuz the car has enough downforce to get grip at high speeds, while getting good exit speed is related to more mechanical grip?

[makecry]

If their weakness is long straights and low speed corners, then it's an aero issue through and through. It's not because of the suspension, although the weight distribution probably isn't ideal, I still think aero will solve their major problem. Right now it doesn't come on in a predictable way. At low speeds it's inconsistent and draggy at high speeds. It seems to work well in mid and high speed corners, as the McLaren isn't too shabby in sector 1 in Barcelona.

Ehh. I disagree. Their issues are clearly mechanical. Probably aero too but mechanical grip has gone to shits.

One of the reasons why ALO hasn't had his signature awesome starts. He needs the car to help him despite him having insane god-like reaction times and spatial awareness. If the car is struggling with traction, it's going to affect the starts too. It might also be one of ther reasons Stoffel has been struggling so much at the starts.

[diffuser]

If their weakness is long straights and low speed corners, then it's an aero issue through and through. It's not because of the suspension, although the weight distribution probably isn't ideal, I still think aero will solve their major problem. Right now it doesn't come on in a predictable way. At low speeds it's inconsistent and draggy at high speeds. It seems to work well in mid and high speed corners, as the McLaren isn't too shabby in sector 1 in Barcelona.

Ehh. I disagree. Their issues are clearly mechanical. Probably aero too but mechanical grip has gone to shits.

One of the reasons why ALO hasn't had his signature awesome starts. He needs the car to help him despite him having insane god-like reaction times and spatial awareness. If the car is struggling with traction, it's going to affect the starts too. It might also be one of ther reasons Stoffel has been struggling so much at the starts.

I doubt they are having mechanical grip issues in a straight line. That's just to easy to do.

It gets complex in slow corners when you don't have the aid of DF and you have weight transfer, what's the suspension doing to counter that weight transfer?

[Nuvolari]

With talk of the rear suspension being the culprit for some of the low speed performance of the car, I wonder if this suggests a flaw in the hierarchy of the car design team. Clearly, the aero team is ruling the roost at McLaren and over ruling the chassis guys. I'm not sure this is a recipe for success, as there is an inherent imbalance in the car design.

Also as a fan of the team I have to question why it has taken them 3 years to realise this. Even from the scraps of data us fans get to see, we've been saying that the car simply is not good in the low speed stuff. Why were no measures taken to address this till now? Poor show McLaren.

Personally, I'm not sure there is a good synergy between the different departments responsible for the car concept.

[GoranF1]

Newey was asked about MCL33's rear suspension in pre season testing on Sky....he said aero will be good mechanical not.

[RonDennis]

With talk of the rear suspension being the culprit for some of the low speed performance of the car, I wonder if this suggests a flaw in the hierarchy of the car design team. Clearly, the aero team is ruling the roost at McLaren and over ruling the chassis guys. I'm not sure this is a recipe for success, as there is an inherent imbalance in the car design.

Also as a fan of the team I have to question why it has taken them 3 years to realise this. Even from the scraps of data us fans get to see, we've been saying that the car simply is not good in the low speed stuff. Why were no measures taken to address this till now? Poor show McLaren.

Personally, I'm not sure there is a good synergy between the different departments responsible for the car concept.

That's why changes are coming up. Brown said in Autosport Magazine that the flat hierarchy isn't working.

[mwillems]

Newey was asked about MCL33's rear suspension in pre season testing on Sky....he said aero will be good mechanical not.

Did he say that? Whilst he may have thought that, he never said it was mechanically bad I think.

Quote as far as I can find: "The pullrod is parallel to the chassis and let much free space for the air streaming to the diffuser. Brake ducts and wings can also work better. Really interesting from aerodynamic view"

[RonDennis]

Newey was asked about MCL33's rear suspension in pre season testing on Sky....he said aero will be good mechanical not.

Did he say that? Whilst he may have thought that, he never said it was mechanically bad I think.

Quote as far as I can find: "The pullrod is parallel to the chassis and let much free space for the air streaming to the diffuser. Brake ducts and wings can also work better. Really interesting from aerodynamic view"

He didn't say that as far as I know.

Teams are constantly battling the effects of airflow inside the rear wheels and any developments to reduce external interference here will be welcomed by the aerodynamicists.

The move does create potential suspension compromises in terms of weight and stiffness.

But McLaren will almost certainly have concluded that the aero benefits of its approach outstrip these negatives.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13458 ... suspension

[mwillems]

Newey was asked about MCL33's rear suspension in pre season testing on Sky....he said aero will be good mechanical not.

Did he say that? Whilst he may have thought that, he never said it was mechanically bad I think.

Quote as far as I can find: "The pullrod is parallel to the chassis and let much free space for the air streaming to the diffuser. Brake ducts and wings can also work better. Really interesting from aerodynamic view"

He didn't say that as far as I know.

Teams are constantly battling the effects of airflow inside the rear wheels and any developments to reduce external interference here will be welcomed by the aerodynamicists.

The move does create potential suspension compromises in terms of weight and stiffness.

But McLaren will almost certainly have concluded that the aero benefits of its approach outstrip these negatives.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13458 ... suspension

Again, he didn't say any of that either, those are the opinions of the journalists, not quotes from Newey.

[godlameroso]

Mechanically the Renault and Haas are no better than the MCL33, their ultimate pace is similar. Haas has Ferrari mechanical setup, and Renault has a bigger budget. With the sharp nose dive in performance Haas had in Monaco compared to Barcelona, despite having the 2018 Ferrari suspension suggests the problem is aero related mainly.

[mwillems]

Mechanically the Renault and Haas are no better than the MCL33, their ultimate pace is similar. Haas has Ferrari mechanical setup, and Renault has a bigger budget. With the sharp nose dive in performance Haas had in Monaco compared to Barcelona, despite having the 2018 Ferrari suspension suggests the problem is aero related mainly.

I think the team have admitted they are having issues with rear traction, however. I'm sure that Aero (including internals) is a factor in the speed of the car, it just seems that traction is also a noticeable factor, by the teams own admission, for the second time in 3 years.

[McHonda]

With talk of the rear suspension being the culprit for some of the low speed performance of the car, I wonder if this suggests a flaw in the hierarchy of the car design team. Clearly, the aero team is ruling the roost at McLaren and over ruling the chassis guys. I'm not sure this is a recipe for success, as there is an inherent imbalance in the car design.

Also as a fan of the team I have to question why it has taken them 3 years to realise this. Even from the scraps of data us fans get to see, we've been saying that the car simply is not good in the low speed stuff. Why were no measures taken to address this till now? Poor show McLaren.

Personally, I'm not sure there is a good synergy between the different departments responsible for the car concept.

It's a new rear suspension so we can't say it took them 3 years to realise this to be fair. Last year the suspension was getting regular praise in AMuS and allegedly they were one of the teams that had the ride height trick. They had to redesign it because that trick got further clamped down on and obviously they had the engine change.

Management structure is fair to question yeah and I think they bit off far too much over one winter with the engine,suspension and nose concept change all at once. Ironically it's a little bit like Honda the previous winter with a new concept,new lean burn and "extra harvest" proving too much for one winters work. It obviously didn't work for McLaren either and it's cost someone their job which is never nice.

We'll see if they can catch up but if I was them I'd switch most of my attention to the new rules for next year and try and steal a march there but it'll be tough.

[Ground Effect]

With talk of the rear suspension being the culprit for some of the low speed performance of the car, I wonder if this suggests a flaw in the hierarchy of the car design team. Clearly, the aero team is ruling the roost at McLaren and over ruling the chassis guys. I'm not sure this is a recipe for success, as there is an inherent imbalance in the car design.

Also as a fan of the team I have to question why it has taken them 3 years to realise this. Even from the scraps of data us fans get to see, we've been saying that the car simply is not good in the low speed stuff. Why were no measures taken to address this till now? Poor show McLaren.

Personally, I'm not sure there is a good synergy between the different departments responsible for the car concept.

It's a new rear suspension so we can't say it took them 3 years to realise this to be fair. Last year the suspension was getting regular praise in AMuS and allegedly they were one of the teams that had the ride height trick. They had to redesign it because that trick got further clamped down on and obviously they had the engine change.

Management structure is fair to question yeah and I think they bit off far too much over one winter with the engine,suspension and nose concept change all at once. Ironically it's a little bit like Honda the previous winter with a new concept,new lean burn and "extra harvest" proving too much for one winters work. It obviously didn't work for McLaren either and it's cost someone their job which is never nice.

We'll see if they can catch up but if I was them I'd switch most of my attention to the new rules for next year and try and steal a march there but it'll be tough.

With new updates expected for Canada on the chassis and the upgraded PU from Renault, (though it's expected to be modest step) Mclaren still sounded very cautious, almost sullen about their chances in Canada. They sound more like hoping for circumstances to go their way with weather/others errors, not like their ready to bring the fight to the others. Renault and Haas are bringing updates too, so Q3 could be a bridge too far. I support the idea for an early switch to the 2019 car.

[mwillems]

How good in the wet would a car with poor rear traction actually be? Can weather save its flaws?