Silly Season 2018/2019

[AJI]

Alonso again in the media slagging off F1's predictability. He seems to have totally talked himself out of staying in F1 and keeps reiterating his confirmation bias to the media.

Pretty ironic considering the Toyota he drives at LM this year is basically enshrined in regulation to be the winner.

Shall we take book on whether Toyota are going to lose the unloseable race?

[zac510]

Alonso again in the media slagging off F1's predictability. He seems to have totally talked himself out of staying in F1 and keeps reiterating his confirmation bias to the media.

Pretty ironic considering the Toyota he drives at LM this year is basically enshrined in regulation to be the winner.

Shall we take book on whether Toyota are going to lose the unloseable race?

I wouldn't dare - I know their luck!

[ScottB]

It's interesting, wasn't that long ago everyone was bored of an inter team title fight, now we've got Merc v Ferrari, the complaint is not enough of a fight within those teams!

To be fair to Merc, I think Hamilton v Rosberg was very draining for the team as a whole, so I can fully understand why they aren't in a rush to have that again. Bottas can do well enough to bring home the Constructors without causing friction with Hamilton, so there's not a lot of incentive to rock the boat, as for Ferrari, well, they've never really believed in having two number ones.

Looking back, teams that have had two clear 'top' drivers in a title fight with another team haven't tended to do well, have they? McLaren in 2012 and 2007 lost out to Vettel and Kimi. Schumi and Alonso's titles were as number ones, you could argue Vettel's were too. Mclaren's successes in 08, 99 and 98 were with effective number ones too. Good inter team fights only seem to pop up in a dominant car, with Mercedes having been 'caught' I suppose it makes sense to have a lead guy and another who is as close as can be without causing any undue stress to the team?

[zeph]

It's interesting, wasn't that long ago everyone was bored of an inter team title fight, now we've got Merc v Ferrari, the complaint is not enough of a fight within those teams!

So true.

[McHonda]

Well it's still 2 drivers so not that much has changed, this one is better though yeah as it involves two of the best and two teams as well.

When the majority of the best drivers still can't realistically fight for wins and therefore titles though it's obviously going to still draw a lot of criticism. Especially in an era where you know that's not going to change for years, never mind races.

[ScottB]

We’ve got three teams who can win races this year, maybe not every race, but certainly at some.

I’m struggling to remember a time with more than that.

We’ve had spells of outright dominance by Merc, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren and Williams in the last few decades, but more than three teams fighting at the front? I guess 2012 had RBR, Ferrari and Mclaren battling for the title, and 99 had Mclaren and Ferrari, with Jordan winning a few, but I can’t think of any that had a fourth team at the front.

It’s good to have some competition at the front of course, but this idea that things need to be more unpredictable / any team should be able to win doesn’t strike me as very ‘F1.’

[Fulcrum]

We’ve got three teams who can win races this year, maybe not every race, but certainly at some.

I’m struggling to remember a time with more than that.

We’ve had spells of outright dominance by Merc, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren and Williams in the last few decades, but more than three teams fighting at the front? I guess 2012 had RBR, Ferrari and Mclaren battling for the title, and 99 had Mclaren and Ferrari, with Jordan winning a few, but I can’t think of any that had a fourth team at the front.

It’s good to have some competition at the front of course, but this idea that things need to be more unpredictable / any team should be able to win doesn’t strike me as very ‘F1.’

2012. Mclaren, Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull, Williams, Lotus.
2013. Lotus, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, before Red Bull ended up dominating.

I hope the relative competition lasts season long, but they usually don't. One or two teams typically produce a significant upgrade the others can't replicate. It would be great if this were not the case this year though.

[zac510]

Show me any sport where 'any team/player/driver can win on any day'.. It'll be a sport with loads of randomness, so that great players can get unlucky and average players can get lucky enough to switch positions before the time runs out.
But people don't like too much randomness, they'll either rebel and de-legitimatise it (ie "Maldonado's win was just because of the tyres") or just reduce the emotional attachment to it (ie MLB Baseball "there are still 120 more games left this year, this one doesn't matter").

[Fulcrum]

Show me any sport where 'any team/player/driver can win on any day'.. It'll be a sport with loads of randomness, so that great players can get unlucky and average players can get lucky enough to switch positions before the time runs out.
But people don't like too much randomness, they'll either rebel and de-legitimatise it (ie "Maldonado's win was just because of the tyres") or just reduce the emotional attachment to it (ie MLB Baseball "there are still 120 more games left this year, this one doesn't matter").

Golf. Seems fairly popular.

[ScottB]

We’ve got three teams who can win races this year, maybe not every race, but certainly at some.

I’m struggling to remember a time with more than that.

We’ve had spells of outright dominance by Merc, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren and Williams in the last few decades, but more than three teams fighting at the front? I guess 2012 had RBR, Ferrari and Mclaren battling for the title, and 99 had Mclaren and Ferrari, with Jordan winning a few, but I can’t think of any that had a fourth team at the front.

It’s good to have some competition at the front of course, but this idea that things need to be more unpredictable / any team should be able to win doesn’t strike me as very ‘F1.’

2012. Mclaren, Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull, Williams, Lotus.
2013. Lotus, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, before Red Bull ended up dominating.

I hope the relative competition lasts season long, but they usually don't. One or two teams typically produce a significant upgrade the others can't replicate. It would be great if this were not the case this year though.

Williams, Lotus and Merc weren’t in the title fight those seasons though, and that Williams win was an outright fluke! Merc were the only one of those you could stretch to including in the latter season, they were just turning it on at one race type performances.

As said, I can’t recall any seasons in recent decades were more than three teams had a genuine shot at either title. It’s always tended to be one or two, with three an outlier. Even this year I don’t think I’d include RBR as a title challenger, but I guess we’ll see.

Ultimately, as you say, one or two teams just do a better job and move clear, that’s long been the way, and I don’t see how you keep the field artificially close together (though the field overall is far closer than it was 10/20 years ago) without becoming more like a spec series.

[Fulcrum]

We’ve got three teams who can win races this year, maybe not every race, but certainly at some.

I’m struggling to remember a time with more than that.

We’ve had spells of outright dominance by Merc, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren and Williams in the last few decades, but more than three teams fighting at the front? I guess 2012 had RBR, Ferrari and Mclaren battling for the title, and 99 had Mclaren and Ferrari, with Jordan winning a few, but I can’t think of any that had a fourth team at the front.

It’s good to have some competition at the front of course, but this idea that things need to be more unpredictable / any team should be able to win doesn’t strike me as very ‘F1.’

2012. Mclaren, Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull, Williams, Lotus.
2013. Lotus, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, before Red Bull ended up dominating.

I hope the relative competition lasts season long, but they usually don't. One or two teams typically produce a significant upgrade the others can't replicate. It would be great if this were not the case this year though.

Williams, Lotus and Merc weren’t in the title fight those seasons though, and that Williams win was an outright fluke! Merc were the only one of those you could stretch to including in the latter season, they were just turning it on at one race type performances.

As said, I can’t recall any seasons in recent decades were more than three teams had a genuine shot at either title. It’s always tended to be one or two, with three an outlier. Even this year I don’t think I’d include RBR as a title challenger, but I guess we’ll see.

Ultimately, as you say, one or two teams just do a better job and move clear, that’s long been the way, and I don’t see how you keep the field artificially close together (though the field overall is far closer than it was 10/20 years ago) without becoming more like a spec series.

I guess it would depend on the definition of 'recent'. The closest ones probably occurred in the 80's, of the modern era anyway. 1981, 1982, 1985. But that's so long ago as to be irrelevant now.

2012 was pretty close, but Red Bull kind of had it in their control most of the time. 2008, Ferrari, McLaren and BMW-Sauber, although BMW-Sauber a bit distant.

I think the best example I can find is the 2003 season. Ferrari, Williams and McLaren finished within 14 points (10-point system) of each other. That equates to 35 points in today's money. Williams led going into the final two rounds, then blew it in USA and Japan.

[Phil]

No one cared to mention 2010? 4 drivers among 3 teams could have won the WDC on the last race!

[zeph]

Exactly. One of the best seasons of all time.

[McHonda]

We’ve got three teams who can win races this year, maybe not every race, but certainly at some.

I’m struggling to remember a time with more than that.

We’ve had spells of outright dominance by Merc, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren and Williams in the last few decades, but more than three teams fighting at the front? I guess 2012 had RBR, Ferrari and Mclaren battling for the title, and 99 had Mclaren and Ferrari, with Jordan winning a few, but I can’t think of any that had a fourth team at the front.

It’s good to have some competition at the front of course, but this idea that things need to be more unpredictable / any team should be able to win doesn’t strike me as very ‘F1.’

2012. Mclaren, Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull, Williams, Lotus.
2013. Lotus, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, before Red Bull ended up dominating.

I hope the relative competition lasts season long, but they usually don't. One or two teams typically produce a significant upgrade the others can't replicate. It would be great if this were not the case this year though.

Williams, Lotus and Merc weren’t in the title fight those seasons though, and that Williams win was an outright fluke! Merc were the only one of those you could stretch to including in the latter season, they were just turning it on at one race type performances.

As said, I can’t recall any seasons in recent decades were more than three teams had a genuine shot at either title. It’s always tended to be one or two, with three an outlier. Even this year I don’t think I’d include RBR as a title challenger, but I guess we’ll see.

Ultimately, as you say, one or two teams just do a better job and move clear, that’s long been the way, and I don’t see how you keep the field artificially close together (though the field overall is far closer than it was 10/20 years ago) without becoming more like a spec series.

If Red Bull are included this year then you can have Lotus-Renault for sure in 2012 and 2013. More often than not it looked quicker than Ferrari, 2012 especially.

I think it's not just the number, 2 or 3 is normal enough as you say, but it's the prospect of one of them relies entirely on the PU and that no-one else is going to join them so we already know it will be the same for the next 2 seasons at least and Red Bull are reliant on either Renault or Honda or it will be Lewis and Seb again swapping wins.

It's just dull for anyone not attached to either, they've swapped having the best car for 9 seasons now and what will likely be 11 by the time 2021 comes around, it gets a little boring so any way that it can get livened up a bit, and team mates being the obvious way to do it, will be hoped for by most but I think everyone understands why it remains as it is at least.

It better to hope they get competitive team mates rather than hope they end up in Alonso's situation in cars too far away to compete. Having the best drivers at the sharp end is what most want after all.

[Sevach]

Leclerc being this good right away doesn't help the Ricciardo to Ferrari thing.

And since Mercedes doesn't seem eager to replace Bottas, Ricciardo will end up staying put.