General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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IvailoStefanovBG
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Very good news! Hope Honda copes well...

NL_Fer
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Allot of rumour the deal will be made public today, go Redbull Honda.

techman
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yeah redbull honda . next year win eve titles. cant wait. dream come true.

Edit Thunder: Stop the bickering ;)

Hino
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Marti_EF3
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techman
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give me a hell yeah. wooooooooo

Talisman
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Fantastic news! Despite the rumours over the past few months I was hesitant to believe something this good could possibly happen. It’ll be hard for Honda but the rewards will be great too.

So McLaren are left in the bizarre position of funding the development of an engine for a competitor while using a different one themselves. Has a similar situation ever occurred before?

Gothrek
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I think the idea that RBR has is the following:
- To win WCC again in this engine formula you need to be a works team. RBR will never be a WCC with Renault again as long as Renault has it's own team + different fuel
- Renault is not that much better than Honda at the moment on the performance side
- As of 2021 there are new engines and the new engines will ditch the MGU-H which is Honda's weak point.

So with the above, why not invest 2 years time to lay a strong foundation for 2021?

I surely wouldn't underestimate Red Bull, they have the data from the Torro Rosso team on the Honda engine, so I am convinced they are making a brilliant move here.

hemichromis
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Very exciting news. I hope Ricciardo stays now!

MMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMM
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Gothrek wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 09:29
I think the idea that RBR has is the following:
- To win WCC again in this engine formula you need to be a works team. RBR will never be a WCC with Renault again as long as Renault has it's own team + different fuel
Same logic behind Ron's decision to switch to Honda in the very first beginning...we know what followed.
On the fuel thing, it was Red Bull's decision to have a different supplier. Made little sense, as pointed out by Toto at the time.
- Renault is not that much better than Honda at the moment on the performance side
Agreed. I would add also that the engine architecture is quite different and it will require a complete redesign of the back of the car.
- As of 2021 there are new engines and the new engines will ditch the MGU-H which is Honda's weak point.
New engine rules, possibly new manufacturers at the horizon, and we all know how RBR loves to jump ship. How would Aston Martin Red Bull Racing Tag Heuer Porsche sound like ? I know, a ratatouille. Agreed.
So with the above, why not invest 2 years time to lay a strong foundation for 2021?
Because it is only 2019 and 2020 that matter right now. Nobody can guarantee you anything beyond that. Even at Honda... If they don't deliver in 2019 and 2020, the management might even decide to pull the plug.

Remember 2013, when Ferrari ditched the whole season to prepare for 2014 ? Result: well they were pretty much abysmal in 2014. Nothing is for granted, and laying foundation and everything else is just marketing talk for the ones that don't/can't deliver at the moment. Btw, remember the 2013 Mercedes ? They finished second in the Championship and they were the ones who improved the most during that season. Yep, all that with 2014 chassis and engine rules changes on the horizon.
I surely wouldn't underestimate Red Bull, they have the data from the Torro Rosso team on the Honda engine, so I am convinced they are making a brilliant move here.
I would really rate it as far from brilliant.
For RBR it will be a challenge to integrate the new PU and they put their 3rd place in Constructors in jeopardy. In fact I'm betting Renault will grasp that 3rd place in 2019. Let's wait and see

From a marketing perspective ditching your long time partner at the eve of their home grand prix, it is not the right thing to do. They could have chosen a different date for the announcement, but they didn't.
I would not be surprised to see consequences. (how would losing Adrian Newey would sound like ? Again let's wait and see)

At last, Honda. It is the Honda topic !
Is there any other partner that can behave worse than McLaren did during those years ? You bet there is one!
It's called RBR.
They proved year after year how toxic they can be for their partners, their own team members and drivers (btw if they lose Newey, I suspect this will be the main reason for him looking to walk away).

I really hope Honda is not offering them "free engines" or sponsorship on any kind.
I'm gutted, Honda deserved better than this. Much better !

TwanV
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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MMMMMMMM wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 10:15
Gothrek wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 09:29
I think the idea that RBR has is the following:
- To win WCC again in this engine formula you need to be a works team. RBR will never be a WCC with Renault again as long as Renault has it's own team + different fuel
Same logic behind Ron's decision to switch to Honda in the very first beginning...we know what followed.
On the fuel thing, it was Red Bull's decision to have a different supplier. Made little sense, as pointed out by Toto at the time.
- Renault is not that much better than Honda at the moment on the performance side
Agreed. I would add also that the engine architecture is quite different and it will require a complete redesign of the back of the car.
- As of 2021 there are new engines and the new engines will ditch the MGU-H which is Honda's weak point.
New engine rules, possibly new manufacturers at the horizon, and we all know how RBR loves to jump ship. How would Aston Martin Red Bull Racing Tag Heuer Porsche sound like ? I know, a ratatouille. Agreed.
So with the above, why not invest 2 years time to lay a strong foundation for 2021?
Because it is only 2019 and 2020 that matter right now. Nobody can guarantee you anything beyond that. Even at Honda... If they don't deliver in 2019 and 2020, the management might even decide to pull the plug.

Remember 2013, when Ferrari ditched the whole season to prepare for 2014 ? Result: well they were pretty much abysmal in 2014. Nothing is for granted, and laying foundation and everything else is just marketing talk for the ones that don't/can't deliver at the moment. Btw, remember the 2013 Mercedes ? They finished second in the Championship and they were the ones who improved the most during that season. Yep, all that with 2014 chassis and engine rules changes on the horizon.
I surely wouldn't underestimate Red Bull, they have the data from the Torro Rosso team on the Honda engine, so I am convinced they are making a brilliant move here.
I would really rate it as far from brilliant.
For RBR it will be a challenge to integrate the new PU and they put their 3rd place in Constructors in jeopardy. In fact I'm betting Renault will grasp that 3rd place in 2019. Let's wait and see

From a marketing perspective ditching your long time partner at the eve of their home grand prix, it is not the right thing to do. They could have chosen a different date for the announcement, but they didn't.
I would not be surprised to see consequences. (how would losing Adrian Newey would sound like ? Again let's wait and see)

At last, Honda. It is the Honda topic !
Is there any other partner that can behave worse than McLaren did during those years ? You bet there is one!
It's called RBR.
They proved year after year how toxic they can be for their partners, their own team members and drivers (btw if they lose Newey, I suspect this will be the main reason for him looking to walk away).

I really hope Honda is not offering them "free engines" or sponsorship on any kind.
I'm gutted, Honda deserved better than this. Much better !

Are you a bot? You make no sense.

Congrats Honda and RBR!

techman
techman
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=D> congrats to redbull honda. i expect great things together.

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johnny vee
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Wazari wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 07:28
:D 俺の 夢が 叶いしました.
google translate:
Ore no yume ga kanai shimashita.
My dream was to come true...
"Because you didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You're here to try to understand why you made it. I thought you'd have figured that out by now." The Oracle, Matrix Reloaded

AJI
AJI
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Joined: 22 Dec 2015, 09:08

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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MMMMMMMM wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 10:15

... I really hope Honda is not offering them "free engines" or sponsorship on any kind.
I'm gutted, Honda deserved better than this. Much better !
I think it's pretty safe to say that Honda will be paying RB for the privilege of partnering with a top team that have an excellent driver pairing. The WDC and WCC is not beyond the realms of possibility with RB.
I'm curious to know who you think would be better for Honda to partner with?

Thunder18
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Joined: 09 Jul 2015, 13:29

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Wazari wrote:
19 Jun 2018, 07:28
:D 俺の 夢が 叶いしました.
I thought you wanted a Williams Honda reunion :P