General Honda F1 Topic

[turbof1]

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They surely will have discussed it, but there's little to decide about it until now that the decision has been made. Red Bull definitely left the door open for a different supplier in 2021. I think important for Aston Martin now is what the engine regulations will ultimately be in 2021, and from there they can work out what their technical partnership will entail with Red Bull and possibly Honda.

Sure, but we're really talking about the next 2 years, and the next 2 years are only going to be the 4 current manufacturers.
Even after that I only see an opening for a VAG brand to enter if they can even be bothered. Toyota/Yamaha at a stretch... Cosworth no chance... AM or any other hypercar brand are on a hiding to nowhere. It's a shame really. Remember the 80's..?

For the next 2 years there's no problem really. TAG will probably dissapear out of the title of the team, but will remain a sponsor otherwise. However, the debth of the partnership between red bull and AM does suggest a long term partnership, and red bull (as a brand) already has a long term partnership with Honda. If they choose to continue with Honda in 2021, which is certainly realistic, they will have to think about solutions quite soon.

If the regulations for 2021 are fitting, we might see smaller manufacturers return. Yes that's a big if.

[AJI]

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If the regulations for 2021 are fitting, we might see smaller manufacturers return. Yes that's a big if.

I suggested 2.0 turbo, modified production block, 1 engine per meeting, 100kg/h fuel flow at any RPM, 600kg car plus 80kg driver minimum weight in another thread...
I know it's off topic, so please don't mod me out of existence, but I honestly feel this is the only way well get back to the garagista DNA of F1...

[rogazilla]

This is certainly a fantastic news for Honda. I am more and more skeptical of new entrant's ability to come in and partner with Red Bull. I wouldn't be surprised that TR would be used as a testing ground or let the smaller team takes up the engine first. For a top team to go from a known entity that they are working with and jump to a new entrant is a pretty big risk.

Look at the facilities that Honda has to establish in the last few years and the ability to start development as the rules are taking shapes put the new entrants at a huge disadvantage.

[turbof1]

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If the regulations for 2021 are fitting, we might see smaller manufacturers return. Yes that's a big if.

I suggested 2.0 turbo, modified production block, 1 engine per meeting, 100kg/h fuel flow at any RPM, 600kg car plus 80kg driver minimum weight in another thread...
I know it's off topic, so please don't mod me out of existence, but I honestly feel this is the only way well get back to the garagista DNA of F1...

I might have a hand in being off topic here...

Let's leave it at that .

[Talisman]

For the next 2 years there's no problem really. TAG will probably dissapear out of the title of the team, but will remain a sponsor otherwise. However, the debth of the partnership between red bull and AM does suggest a long term partnership, and red bull (as a brand) already has a long term partnership with Honda. If they choose to continue with Honda in 2021, which is certainly realistic, they will have to think about solutions quite soon.

If the regulations for 2021 are fitting, we might see smaller manufacturers return. Yes that's a big if.

AM is small fry though. Although the 2021 PUs will be significantly simpler the existing PU suppliers have massive built in advantages. For a start they all have large experienced development teams and will have budgets significantly higher than seen in other formulae. AM's budget will be tiny compared to even Honda or Renault. RBR would be mad to ditch a Honda or Renault deal for AM.

Porsche is a different proposition, although again Honda would be a known value by the time RBR make their decision for 2021. I can't see how Porsche RBR in 2021 is seen as a certainty.

[Talisman]

Further example: AM is looking to put high performance cars on the european market with RBR branding to appeal to a younger crowd. Honda is trying to do the same with a new sportscar they designed and also want to profit from RBR branding to appeal to the same crowd. It's not difficult to see those issues coming up.

You can substitute McLaren for AM too, both British companies make supercars which overlap with Honda's NSX. Didn't stop Honda from doing a works deal with Woking and doesn't seem to have made a difference to signing with Red Bull.

[etusch]

At the end redbull knows his responsibilities to his partners and made a deal with Honda. We know that those are talked between them. So they must be dealed with both AM and TH

[maguetox]

This news is a recognition of the progress that Honda made in the last year that is given the results right now, I always tough if RB decided to keep Renault in the back of their cars, was the evidence that Honda was not ready to fight for top positions and their engine is not even on par with the Renault.

But I also think, the "anonymous" key factor that this is happening is Franz Tost, since he take the Honda challenge, he create an work environment of mutual respect and understanding in order to grow together, this bring the perfect atmosphere inside both team to work together and I´m sure this attitude help in the decision.

[zeph]

Congrats to Honda, it seems like a good fit on paper. Unless the performance isn’t there next year, and RBR starts badmouthing them like they did Renault in 2015.

[roon]

https://mobile.twitter.com/redbullracin ... 019-950655

Wow. It is actually happening.

Newey finally gets a split turbo. Stormclouds gather on the horizon.

[Edax]

Some of my thoughts in this:

-First off, I can't say what the future holds. Nobody has a cristal ball. Based on the data Red Bull had, they must have serious indications that Honda either completely cleared the gap to Renault by now, or that they made such big inroads atleast that they are convinced Honda will turn out to be better by next year. Red Bull surely well have considered everything possible on that regard.

-Concerning ditching a 12 year relationship: Well, to be brunt long term relationships can fail as well. It wasn't like this is a breakup by surprise. The relationship was already tarnished. Renault and Red Bull hardly had any commercial synergies left, if any at all.

-Honda on the other hand already has strong ties with Red Bull in that other hugely popular motorsport series: Motogp. Marketing wise this further strengthening an ongoing relationship which began back in 2006.

Provided Honda effectively lifted performance levels sufficiently, this is a good deal. Even if Honda remains at the level of Renault, you still have the commercial synergies.

The only thing to worry about is how to keep Aston Martin and perhaps TAG Heuer happy.

As a brand I think Red bull is much more a match with Honda than Aston Martin and I think they would not be sad to let them go. Sounds maybe stupid on a technical forum, but in the end the marketing value has an influence on the longevity of a relation.

Aston Martin may not have the appeal to red bull’s target audience than Honda has. Aston Martin is about legacy and establishment, whereas Red bull is more the opposite. Honda with their motorcross, motor Gp, rally and powerboat programs fits that profile much better, and I would not be surprised to see cooperation in other fields as a result of this.

Another interesting one is the oil/fuel sponsor. I expect them to stay with mobil, but on the other hand Repsol has been looking for years for a suitable f1 entry.

[Talisman]

Signing up with Red Bull in the morning and beating Colombia 2-1 in the afternoon, its been a great and busy day for Honda!

[Shrieker]

Imma boast

Red Bull Honda 2019 confirmed ? Red Bull Honda has such a nice ring to it.

Like Repsol Honda,

Indeed The Honda engine didn't look like Renault had something on them this weekend. If they keep getting better (why shouldn't they with 1 more year's worth of development), can't see Red Bull not snatching them.

[bigblue]

Just want to say that I appreciate posts from both muramasa, bringing us translations of japanese coverage that gives us insight that we wouldn't otherwise have got, and wazari, giving us little tidbits of insider info and Honda view point. Anyone is free to his/her own opinion on reliability of posted info, as long as it doesn't get personal.

Right back to fun stuff ... any actual Honda news ? Looks like revised PU may have some performance left, and there will be another update this season. Maybe I can tempt wazari (or anyone else) into posting an opinion (not necessarily cast-iron fact) by asking, what do think the Honda step forward is due to ? Was the pre-chamber the instigator of the significant step forward, or the re-architecture of the engine layout, or ERS software or simulation and dyno accuracy, or organisational changes, or just time and experience ?

I suppose the inevitable answer is all the above ! I would guess pre-chamber was essential though.

Another question, are Mercedes doing something fundamentally different to Honda ? This is probably not answerable without taking the engine to bits and having a look. Do all the secrets get published in papers at the end of the formula, or do they remain secret ? Would be fun to have all the PU makers look at each others solutions in retrospect !

[dren]

It didn't take Red Bull very long to make the decision. It must have been pretty clear cut in the numbers.