More details about McLaren's technical leadership changes are becoming public as it has now become clear that Toro Rosso's highly valued technical director, James Key, is set to join McLaren in the same role.
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Actually it can be quite common. Red bull started last year with the same issues after a blazing 2016
Lol seriously. There was a radical aero change in 2017 with the wing and rears to help overtaking. By barcelona RedBull and other teams had it figured. Thats the key Barcelona, most teams have yotta bytes of historical data for Barcelona so any correlation issues can be fixed there. Exhibit FI who were nowhere in testing with new car and no funds but now have caught up the midfield.
The quicker you accept that Mclaren are freefalling and back of the midfield pack, the lesser the pain.
im just waiting for Fernando to shout on the radio : GP2 chassis, GP2 Chassis .
Alonso is part of the problem.
(before you all stone me read on please)
He has given Mclaren the impression of having upto half a second they do not have and 3 or 4 positions up the points to where they would be. They are basing the position they see themselves in on Alonso's results. not Van Dorne's which is where they really are.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.
Actually it can be quite common. Red bull started last year with the same issues after a blazing 2016
Lol seriously. There was a radical aero change in 2017 with the wing and rears to help overtaking. By barcelona RedBull and other teams had it figured. Thats the key Barcelona, most teams have yotta bytes of historical data for Barcelona so any correlation issues can be fixed there. Exhibit FI who were nowhere in testing with new car and no funds but now have caught up the midfield.
The quicker you accept that Mclaren are freefalling and back of the midfield pack, the lesser the pain.
Red bull only sorted out their issues properly at Singapore
Yes, give them more time. And time flies isnt? As an mclaren (and honda) fan i feel sorry for them, but look like their management problem make everything more difficult to solve
im just waiting for Fernando to shout on the radio : GP2 chassis, GP2 Chassis .
Alonso is part of the problem.
(before you all stone me read on please)
He has given Mclaren the impression of having upto half a second they do not have and 3 or 4 positions up the points to where they would be. They are basing the position they see themselves in on Alonso's results. not Van Dorne's which is where they really are.
Oh not this crap again... lets get Yuji Ide to see where the car REALLY is...
im just waiting for Fernando to shout on the radio : GP2 chassis, GP2 Chassis .
Alonso is part of the problem.
(before you all stone me read on please)
He has given Mclaren the impression of having upto half a second they do not have and 3 or 4 positions up the points to where they would be. They are basing the position they see themselves in on Alonso's results. not Van Dorne's which is where they really are.
Oh not this crap again... lets get Yuji Ide to see where the car REALLY is...
Well at least offer a counter argument?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.
let's get things really rolling and bring on some tinfoil stuff......
could there be any possibilty of sabotage?
Whitmarsh -somehow- still works at Mclaren despite getting the boot a couple years ago and nobody knowing what happened to him (i remember that discussion here),
Ron came back and there was a lot of discomfort top to bottom, Ron supposedly tried some sort of coup with (chinese?) investors and then was shown the exit, that VW guy
got hired and immediately sacked, Zak got appointed, Bouillier still there (somehow), arguments with Honda, expected, calculated results stay out both from Honda aswell
as Mclaren, Honda is out yet no change at Mclaren, and now there is a employee riot which was also 'prompted' by sacking Tim Goss....and now the chaos is complete @ Mclaren.
In any case, the environment is surely to blame, it's a gigantic mess @ woking, that much is clear.
At the same time, how can - after all those years - the team still be so far from anything 'good' ?
I know it's reaching, sure. Just a thought pattern i'd be curious to see into.
There have been several mentions about the circumstances @ Ferrari too before, regarding Mattiacci for example.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
boullier lacks leadership qualities and listening to constructive criticism is a must. i remember once Arai talking to the press , said that mclaren lacks mechanical grip. Eric ridiculed him , but instead he should have listened to him. if the criticism is constructive why not listen, it only help. but eric simply dismissed as lack of power issue. i guess we know the real truth now.
Yes. I made this call and was bashed across head for it. Glad that Zak finally wiped the BS on the windscreen away.
The thing is the car is pretty damn good aero wise save for a crucial detail, except that fixing this detail has huge knock on effects, so they can't just haphazardly throw parts at it. It's worth a lot of time if they get it working, maybe you take issue with PP's methodical approach, and maybe you're right, they just need to be a little more adventurous with their design in this area. Obviously when it comes to design you are always guessing, but you try to minimize the risks, it's easier to take risks with unlimited resources. With limited resources you have to bank on sure things, sure thing number 1 is iteration, a distant second is exploiting generalized principles to guide development, and number 3 is a complete radical overhaul which is a sign of desperation. No self respecting narcissist would dare take option 3, but option 3 may be what's needed.
Personally I have never ruled out Aero issues, or in fact ruled out anything. It's obvious that aero is costing them a lot of time. But the way they ran the suspension so hard in Canada in comparison to other teams, as well as apparently needing more downforce still suggests top me they also have a suspension problem. I also don't put it past them to not be honest and clear with the full facts, or to mention all the issues. Of course it is possible that the behaviour of the diffuser forces them to push the car closer to the ground and for it to require a stiffer setup to work, but still it seems off to me.
Other teams appear to not have a dissimilar bargeboard setup, or have had, to us, yet they do not suffer the same issues.
He has given Mclaren the impression of having upto half a second they do not have and 3 or 4 positions up the points to where they would be. They are basing the position they see themselves in on Alonso's results. not Van Dorne's which is where they really are.
Oh not this crap again... lets get Yuji Ide to see where the car REALLY is...
Well at least offer a counter argument?
You can't say that a driver is a problem just because he is that good and puts the car on places it should not be at... Then let's just have bad drivers then and that will be the measure for success... Alonso is not the problem, he's the reason McL are not dead last in the standings. McLarens tunnel vision, always focusing on Alonso results instead of Van Dorne results, and not reacting quickly enough is the problem...
He has given Mclaren the impression of having upto half a second they do not have and 3 or 4 positions up the points to where they would be. They are basing the position they see themselves in on Alonso's results. not Van Dorne's which is where they really are.
Oh not this crap again... lets get Yuji Ide to see where the car REALLY is...
Well at least offer a counter argument?
Common sense. Physics. That fact that Alonso cannot make the car go faster than it is capable of going. Sure, he's faster than Vandoorne (not sure who this Van Dorne person is lol) and faster than a lot of other drivers and is capable of driving around problems to an extent, but let's make this clear - the car can only go as fast as it is capable of, therefore Alonso cannot make it go faster than that. If they had 2 drivers of Alonso's quality in the team would you be arguing that they should hire a slower driver in order to see what the "true pace" of the car is? Is the true pace of the Sauber what Leclerc is doing, or what Ericsson is doing? What about the Mercedes? Is Hamilton making it faster than it really is an the true pace is what Stroll would manage in that car?
The only time you can argue about a team not showing the "true pace" of the car due to drivers is where they have two slow drivers and you could argue that a faster driver would get better results in the car....*cough* Williams *cough*
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren
Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻♂️
I think the point he was making is that the usable operating window is tiny and so that is not a good quality to have in a car. It means rubbish aero design.
I wonder what aero devices he’s talking about. The car doesn’t seem drastically different in terms of aero profile compared to last year apart from the nose.
Yes. I made this call and was bashed across head for it. Glad that Zak finally wiped the BS on the windscreen away.
The thing is the car is pretty damn good aero wise save for a crucial detail, except that fixing this detail has huge knock on effects, so they can't just haphazardly throw parts at it. It's worth a lot of time if they get it working, maybe you take issue with PP's methodical approach, and maybe you're right, they just need to be a little more adventurous with their design in this area. Obviously when it comes to design you are always guessing, but you try to minimize the risks, it's easier to take risks with unlimited resources. With limited resources you have to bank on sure things, sure thing number 1 is iteration, a distant second is exploiting generalized principles to guide development, and number 3 is a complete radical overhaul which is a sign of desperation. No self respecting narcissist would dare take option 3, but option 3 may be what's needed.
Personally I have never ruled out Aero issues, or in fact ruled out anything. It's obvious that aero is costing them a lot of time. But the way they ran the suspension so hard in Canada in comparison to other teams, as well as apparently needing more downforce still suggests top me they also have a suspension problem. I also don't put it past them to not be honest and clear with the full facts, or to mention all the issues. Of course it is possible that the behaviour of the diffuser forces them to push the car closer to the ground and for it to require a stiffer setup to work, but still it seems off to me.
Other teams appear to not have a dissimilar bargeboard setup, or have had, to us, yet they do not suffer the same issues.
