VW diesel cars fallout

[Big Tea]

100 years ago who would have believed there would be almost no water troughs for horses and you would be able to buy huge amounts of flammable liquid at a dozen places within 10min of city centers.

more than 100 years ago some one wanted to provide wireless power to the masses
https://i.imgur.com/o0e8eNh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eTqBXsf.jpg

of course the evil oil emperors wouldn't let it happen .. keeping the human cattles in oil addiction for ages.. and counting....
but TPTB finally have something new to say
ICE termination
https://i.imgur.com/CFtC9Sg.jpg

Yip. J.P.Morgan thought there was more money in it the other way and 'pulled the plug'

[Just_a_fan]

The other option would be shared vehicles, where you do not have a vehicle at home, they are all in a charging dock and you press a macro button on your phone for it to drive around to where you happen to be when you want it.
This would require a huge mind set change, though it happened with the switch from horse and carriage to car .

This exists now - it's called a taxi.

The big mindset change required is from the consumer - they have to move on from the idea of owning a car. Car ownership, like home ownership, is part of "social mobility" and is a way for people to think they have "made it". With the correct rental models, there is no need to own a house or a car. The key for the consumer (particularly with houses) is security of rental. I.e. knowing that you won't suddenly find yourself without transport (or a house).

I live in a village without good public transport - there is a bus but it is infrequent. For work I travel to both town and country so buses don't work for me - I need a car. If I lived and worked in a city, I would not bother with a car. Public transport, pedal cycles, walking all work much better in a city and improve air qulity too - which is the problem being faced currently.

[Zynerji]

Do you live in the US? The distances where I live are measured in hours, not miles.

I have specifically had this same argument with a European before, as never having been here, they didn't have any scope as to how much space is here, and how far spread everything is outside of the cities.

I regularly drive 60-90 minutes, one way, to my employment, and often move thousands of miles when I start a new contract.

Public transportation is great for <5% of the total measured area of the US. It's just not plausible here as it may be in the much much smaller Euro countries.

[Big Tea]

Do you live in the US? The distances where I live are measured in hours, not miles.

I have specifically had this same argument with a European before, as never having been here, they didn't have any scope as to how much space is here, and how far spread everything is outside of the cities.

I regularly drive 60-90 minutes, one way, to my employment, and often move thousands of miles when I start a new contract.

Public transportation is great for <5% of the total measured area of the US. It's just not plausible here as it may be in the much much smaller Euro countries.

But does that matter if you own it if the car of your choice turns up at your house either every day as a set time or 10 min after you press a button on your phone?
It could be an identical model, more thoroughly serviced and with good tyres and a full tank ( of what ever )

You get in and drive as you would the car you have now, but when you arrive, the car does not need parking, it goes off and takes someone else where they want to go etc, then it (or another) is where you want it to go home, where you also do not need to park it?

Yes some people need constant access to the car, but very few.

Since I retired I have a small 1.4 after having had bigger cars all my life and use public transport far more than the car, it is more or less just there for backup. I realise this would not work for everyone, I did not think it would work for me. After a short period, I adjusted to it and find it better than before. I am not trying to say everyone could do this, but many could and it would at worst mean small efficient cars used far less often. I have been a 'car nut' most of my life, and only realised the alternative this last few years.

[Big Tea]

The other option would be shared vehicles, where you do not have a vehicle at home, they are all in a charging dock and you press a macro button on your phone for it to drive around to where you happen to be when you want it.
This would require a huge mind set change, though it happened with the switch from horse and carriage to car .

This exists now - it's called a taxi.

The big mindset change required is from the consumer - they have to move on from the idea of owning a car. Car ownership, like home ownership, is part of "social mobility" and is a way for people to think they have "made it". With the correct rental models, there is no need to own a house or a car. The key for the consumer (particularly with houses) is security of rental. I.e. knowing that you won't suddenly find yourself without transport (or a house).

I live in a village without good public transport - there is a bus but it is infrequent. For work I travel to both town and country so buses don't work for me - I need a car. If I lived and worked in a city, I would not bother with a car. Public transport, pedal cycles, walking all work much better in a city and improve air qulity too - which is the problem being faced currently.

Where I live it is called a bus, and its free .
We can go to town, step out in the centre not in the carpark, have a beer with my lunch and get back on to the bus where ever I happen to be, not have to go back to where I left it.

I am converted, erm, most of the time. I have a tiny 'city car' for things you cannot do on public transport, but it does make me feel better knowing its there if I need it. I may bite the bullet one day and go 'fully public'.

[Just_a_fan]

Do you live in the US? The distances where I live are measured in hours, not miles.

No, the UK. I have been to and driven in the US and I know how big it is. Driving is easy, too, because once you're out of the big conurbations, traffic density is pretty low. Last time over there I drove from Flagstaff, Arizona to Morro Bay, California. A little over 600 miles. SWMBO decided we should break the journey so stopped in Barstow - about half way. Truth is, I could have happily driven the whole 600+ miles in the day because the driving was so easy. Do that in Europe and you'd be pretty tired because you're driving the whole time because traffic density means you have to be "eyes out" and concentrating.

Public transportation is great for <5% of the total measured area of the US. It's just not plausible here as it may be in the much much smaller Euro countries.

The point is that even in the big 'ol US of A, there are many (no doubt most) people who live and work in cities with public transport. They live only a few miles from where they work. They sit in heavy traffic contributing to the pollution of the air that they are breathing. That applies to US cities just as it applies to European cities, and Asian cities etc.

It's not about getting everyone out of their cars, it's about encouraging those who can to take alternatives that benefit them and, in the process, benefit everyone.

When we've been in the US and asked where we might eat, we regularly would get told - drive down the block and "Bob's" is a great diner. Turns out "Bob's" is little more than a hundred yard walk away. Why drive a hundred yards?! We found out why - there are so few sidewalks. I assume this is because no one walks in the first place. We would walk anyway, but only because we're British and like a challenge...crossing parking lots etc. to get to "Bob's"

[Just_a_fan]

Where I live it is called a bus, and its free .
We can go to town, step out in the centre not in the carpark, have a beer with my lunch and get back on to the bus where ever I happen to be, not have to go back to where I left it.

I am converted, erm, most of the time. I have a tiny 'city car' for things you cannot do on public transport, but it does make me feel better knowing its there if I need it. I may bite the bullet one day and go 'fully public'.

Yeah, we have buses but they're infrequent. When we go to one local town we use the park-and-ride. Easy and I like it. T'other town doesn't have park-and-ride, sadly.

I have a 4x4 . I use it to its full - it's my daily driver, my horse-trailer towing vehicle and my plaything . I am toying with getting an EV for work use which would then cover the majority of my miles. That would be a charge at home vehicle, of course.

[Big Tea]

Where I live it is called a bus, and its free .
We can go to town, step out in the centre not in the carpark, have a beer with my lunch and get back on to the bus where ever I happen to be, not have to go back to where I left it.

I am converted, erm, most of the time. I have a tiny 'city car' for things you cannot do on public transport, but it does make me feel better knowing its there if I need it. I may bite the bullet one day and go 'fully public'.

Yeah, we have buses but they're infrequent. When we go to one local town we use the park-and-ride. Easy and I like it. T'other town doesn't have park-and-ride, sadly.

I have a 4x4 . I use it to its full - it's my daily driver, my horse-trailer towing vehicle and my plaything . I am toying with getting an EV for work use which would then cover the majority of my miles. That would be a charge at home vehicle, of course.

Busses only travel routes where people catch them. Catch 22.
As I said, Not everyone can do it, it is not practical for everyone all the time. Lets start with some people trying it some time and go from there. I also find the current trend of cars being huge and taking up twice the road/parking space of a car with the same size passenger compartment and half size footprint.

[Zynerji]

Most large American cities have subways. And literally millions of people use them every day.

That was the push to accomplish what you are speaking about, and a great idea.

It just simply doesn't scale well for cost to do it anywhere outside of those dense areas. *

*high speed, coast to coast transit excepted.

[strad]

With the correct rental models, there is no need to own a house or a car.

So,, Only a select few would own either and be able to profit from it?

[loner]

Greenpeace UK
‏
Verified account

@GreenpeaceUK
3h3 hours ago
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Here we are in case you haven't seen us! #DitchDiesel


Greenpeace UK
‏
Verified account

@GreenpeaceUK
5h5 hours ago
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BREAKING: medics & Greenpeace activists are shutting down @UKVolkswagen’s HQ & turning it into an emergency diesel pollution clinic. They’re calling on VW to #DitchDiesel because it’s making our air dangerous to breathe

[flynfrog]

well at least they aren't damaging prehistoric monuments this time.

[Tommy Cookers]

well I was looking to note somewhere (for my own benefit) on the latest UK summer shock/horror vehicle-greenist story .....

2 days ago the consumerist 'Which ?' organisation was reported as saying law-breaking diesel sales were everywhere
what it actually said was that despite the part-introduction of new emissions tests the 'bad' cars were still legally selling
'bad' seemed to be 'small' (below 150 hp) diesels and makes other than Mercedes and BMW
Which tests showed the expected 'bad' behaviour ie NOx 'emissions' perhaps 50x the certification-test level
when they say 'emissions' they of course mean emission rates for 1 km (as does the law)

my point ??
these high NOx levels are only developed in high-power ie extra-urban driving
(the same as it was in the original tests from which they made these 'bad diesel' claims were first made in the UK)
at worst then these are brief emission rate peaks in dumping a limited amount of stored NOx brought into the city from outside
they do not represent the sustained ie real-world urban/city driving emission rates of these 'bad' vehicles
ie Which's emissions tests presented as tests of 'real driving' emission don't represent real urban/city driving emissions
maybe the official 'real driving' emission tests do ?

the 'bad diesels' are those that don't have a dedicated reductant fluid
the UK is a world leader in illegally faking the presence of reductant fluid activity in trucks and vans
the Guardian 'news'paper says there's 38000 early air pollution deaths annually ....
when the source 'study' actually claims 38000 deaths premature by 4 weeks in a life of nearly 4000 weeks

btw there's summer news that .....
heart campaigners found (as before) that vehicle noise was bad for health even where without bad levels of pollution
ie people can't sleep properly when their neighbours have diesels

[strad]

I wouldn't worry about the NOx nearly so much as the carcinogen particulates they spew.

[rgava]

I wouldn't worry about the NOx nearly so much as the carcinogen particulates they spew.

¿Do you know Diesel particulates filters emit less particles from the exhaust than from the tyres and brakes?

Modern diesels emit less particles from the exhaust than the ones entering the engine by the admission collector.