Automated overtaking

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This is...

a terrible idea.
0
No votes
a very terrible idea.
24
92%
kind of meh.
2
8%
 
Total votes: 26

roon
roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Automated overtaking

Post

Passing is perhaps one of the most overrated aspects of motorsport. Passing is a byproduct of a multi-car track contest, not a goal. The goal of a multi-car race generally is: going 'round the track faster than your competitors. So let's improve that, and bring overtaking back into the realm of necessity, away from romanticism.

To make sure faster cars do not have their progress impeded nor endangered, we use automation, sensors, and GPS (autopilot) intermittently to ensure the progress of the race seamlessly.

A proximity zone is established around each car. 50m for the sake of discussion. When a faster car, based on sector time, road speed, or lap time, approaches a slower car, the computers in either car, and race control, begin to take over.

The slower car has its power output reduced (fuel flow, rev limits, current redux, etc.). The faster car has its power output maintained or increased. The slower car is moved temporarily to a slower racing line. The faster car is kept upon or moved to the preferential racing line.

This would all occur in a couple seconds or less. The goal would be to invisiblize the slower car, and eliminate defensive moves and the accidents they cause. The faster car sails through as though there was no one there.

Lap times improve, safety improves, passes occur more frequently, but in a more predictable, safe way. So not very different from a DRS pass, in that sense. The race becomes more like a time trial/time attack contested by multiple rivals at the same time. Each is focusing only upon their own speed and progress, not traffic nor defensiveness.

Spent about five minutes thought on this; hoping there aren't too many glaring errors in logic... :)

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DiogoBrand
73
Joined: 14 May 2015, 19:02
Location: Brazil

Re: Automated overtaking

Post

Please don't take this personally, but this is the stupidest idea I've seen in a long time.

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Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Automated overtaking

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roon wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 08:24
Passing is perhaps one of the most overrated aspects of motorsport. Passing is a byproduct of a multi-car track contest, not a goal. The goal of a multi-car race generally is: going 'round the track faster than your competitors.
Passing is the reason for racing on sundays as we know it. If not, just remove the sundays and provide points for saturday qualifying, or start a scratch competition similar to WRC, but if all cars race at same track and same time, it´s because of passing, battling and wheel to wheel action

IMHO, a very terrible idea

roon
roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: Automated overtaking

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DiogoBrand wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 08:42
Please don't take this personally, but this is the stupidest idea I've seen in a long time.
I don't actually. I couldn't quite tell how potentially bad this could be while writing the idea down, hence the poll :D That said, we're halfway there with DRS zones. As a driver, if you could virtually bump the slow cars out of the way, you could focus more on the lap. Lap time mastery would supercede traffic/tailgating mastery in the competitive arena.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Automated overtaking

Post

Andres125sx wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 08:46
roon wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 08:24
Passing is perhaps one of the most overrated aspects of motorsport. Passing is a byproduct of a multi-car track contest, not a goal. The goal of a multi-car race generally is: going 'round the track faster than your competitors.
Passing is the reason for racing on sundays as we know it.
No. Winning is the reason for racing on Sunday. Overtaking is merely a by-product of there being drivers/cars with differing ability/performance/"luck".
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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Zynerji
111
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Automated overtaking

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DiogoBrand wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 08:42
Please don't take this personally, but this is the stupidest idea I've seen in a long time.
It's like "blue flagging" for position...

Titchener
Titchener
0
Joined: 03 May 2018, 16:21

Re: Automated overtaking

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It would neutralise racing. We watch in anticipation of seeing great skill and/or human error

roon
roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: Automated overtaking

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 09:13
Andres125sx wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 08:46
roon wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 08:24
Passing is perhaps one of the most overrated aspects of motorsport. Passing is a byproduct of a multi-car track contest, not a goal. The goal of a multi-car race generally is: going 'round the track faster than your competitors.
Passing is the reason for racing on sundays as we know it.
No. Winning is the reason for racing on Sunday. Overtaking is merely a by-product of there being drivers/cars with differing ability/performance/"luck".
To promote the opposing view: award points based on passing and nothing else. Contestants forced to race through the ranks constantly. Lap times irrelevant, but having a faster car still would be. I gave this ~1 min of thought.

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Sieper
73
Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 15:19

Re: Automated overtaking

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I miss option D though, hand out HP and torgue figure at RPM levels sheets from your engine, hand over the (correlating) windtunnel test numbers, add a money spending 'political weight' input factor and declare the winner. Defending/overtaking/fighting with your opponents is what makes the sport.

I think this is coming from what we are increasingly seeing, drivers choosing not to defend their position, but that is just a reality of wanting to maximize your own result, pick your battles.

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Zynerji
111
Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Automated overtaking

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Sieper wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 09:43
I miss option D though, hand out HP and torgue figure at RPM levels sheets from your engine, hand over the (correlating) windtunnel test numbers, add a money spending 'political weight' input factor and declare the winner. Defending/overtaking/fighting with your opponents is what makes the sport.

I think this is coming from what we are increasingly seeing, drivers choosing not to defend their position, but that is just a reality of wanting to maximize your own result, pick your battles.
It's math. I personally like player- killer racing. No blue flags, but 1 point awarded for passing a back marker, and the lapped car is shown the black flag immediately. Huge incentive to fight for the lead as early as possible, and no turning down the engine and cruising at the front. It would also open opportunities for second place to get by during the scuffle, as the back marker would block like h3ll.

Oh, the drama that would cause!

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Automated overtaking

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If you want to force overtaking, you need to randomise start positions so that faster car/driver combinations start from further back than they would with "fastest at the front" qualifying.

Alternatively, you deal with the cause of low overtake occurrence - which is the cars / tracks.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Automated overtaking

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 09:13
Andres125sx wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 08:46
roon wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 08:24
Passing is perhaps one of the most overrated aspects of motorsport. Passing is a byproduct of a multi-car track contest, not a goal. The goal of a multi-car race generally is: going 'round the track faster than your competitors.
Passing is the reason for racing on sundays as we know it.
No. Winning is the reason for racing on Sunday. Overtaking is merely a by-product of there being drivers/cars with differing ability/performance/"luck".

And what´s the reason someone first tought about putting different cars/bikes/trucks/whatever on a track at same time with same target?

It was only because they didn´t realize they could have organized a time attack race where each car/bike/truck only fight the stop watch?

Don´t you think when they put 20 whatever on a track at same time overtaking might be one of the reason to provide more entertainment?

roon
roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: Automated overtaking

Post

Andres125sx wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 09:31
Just_a_fan wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 09:13
Andres125sx wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 08:46


Passing is the reason for racing on sundays as we know it.
No. Winning is the reason for racing on Sunday. Overtaking is merely a by-product of there being drivers/cars with differing ability/performance/"luck".

And what´s the reason someone first tought about putting different cars/bikes/trucks/whatever on a track at same time with same target?

It was only because they didn´t realize they could have organized a time attack race where each car/bike/truck only fight the stop watch?

Don´t you think when they put 20 whatever on a track at same time overtaking might be one of the reason to provide more entertainment?
Ask the ancients.

Image

Chariot racing (Greek: ἁρματοδρομία harmatodromia, Latin: ludi circenses) was one of the most popular ancient Greek, Roman, and Byzantine sports. Chariot racing was dangerous to both drivers and horses as they often suffered serious injury and even death, but these dangers added to the excitement and interest for spectators. In the Roman form of chariot racing, teams represented different groups of financial backers and sometimes competed for the services of particularly skilled drivers. As in modern sports like football, spectators generally chose to support a single team, identifying themselves strongly with its fortunes, and violence sometimes broke out between rival factions. The rivalries were sometimes politicized, when teams became associated with competing social or religious ideas. This helps explain why Roman and later Byzantine emperors took control of the teams and appointed many officials to oversee them.

The sport faded in importance in the West after the fall of Rome. It survived for a time in the Byzantine Empire, where the traditional Roman factions continued to play a prominent role for several centuries, gaining influence in political matters. Their rivalry culminated in the Nika riots, which marked the gradual decline of the sport.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariot_racing
Image

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Automated overtaking

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Andres125sx wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 09:31


Don´t you think when they put 20 whatever on a track at same time overtaking might be one of the reason to provide more entertainment?
No. If they wanted overtaking as entertainment, they would not have invented a system that puts the fastest car at the front and the slowest car at the back and called it "qualifying".

Remember - racing isn't about the spectators (no matter how much F1 types talk about the show). Racing is about the drivers (and their team where such things exist) winning races. Most motorsport exists at grass roots level and is just people enjoying driving/riding quickly and trying to be the winner. They couldn't give too figs for the guys stood on the grass banking watching.

You, as a spectator, only matter to F1 because you existing means they can attract money from sponsorship. Elsewhere, racing is just about the guys on track and not about "entertainment".
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

roon
roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: Automated overtaking

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 10:40
Andres125sx wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 09:31


Don´t you think when they put 20 whatever on a track at same time overtaking might be one of the reason to provide more entertainment?
No. If they wanted overtaking as entertainment, they would not have invented a system that puts the fastest car at the front and the slowest car at the back and called it "qualifying".

Remember - racing isn't about the spectators (no matter how much F1 types talk about the show). Racing is about the drivers (and their team where such things exist) winning races. Most motorsport exists at grass roots level and is just people enjoying driving/riding quickly and trying to be the winner. They couldn't give too figs for the guys stood on the grass banking watching.

You, as a spectator, only matter to F1 because you existing means they can attract money from sponsorship. Elsewhere, racing is just about the guys on track and not about "entertainment".
This is great comment on the chicken-or-egg nature of spectacle. Some will say the performers need the crowd. Others will say the crowd flocks to the performer. The truth may lie elsewhere.

What is the nature of sporting competition? Why compete at all? Even at the grassroots level, with small or nonexistent crowds.

Qualifying establishing an ordered rank based on merit, is interesting to consider. The race is the ultimate goal, or contest. But qualifying, as it exists, says that those with better objective performance, based on narrow criteria, should be given a preferential rank on the starting grid. Egalitarianism. On a narrow track, with multiple cars aiming at one objective, some form of organization is required. Starting everyone shoulder to shoulder, or equidistant from the first corner, would require track redesign and potentially lead to more collisions. Anarchic free markets. Reversing the qualifying grid could be done to satisfy a sense of fairness, or a simple desire to see the chaos wrought by putting the slowest people in the front and watching the fastest drown in the middle, occasionally rising back to their expected location after jumping the hurdles of the imposed rigmarole. Communism.

Building multiple copies of the racetrack above or below the original, via tunnels or elevated tracks, would permit the contest without qualifying while ensure maximum safety and agency. Futurism.