Team McLaren doesn't know the rules!

[smusi]

I am sure that I'm not the only one that knew immediately, while watching the live, on board footage of Hamilton's first lap chicane cutting antics, that he'd gained advantage, and that he needed to let Vettel past again.
I am also sure that Lewis is supposed to know the rules, but giving him the benefit of the doubt, and since he's the one in "the heat of the battle", the Team SHOULD have told him to let him by again.
I'm wondering what was going through McLaren's minds, and if I were a sponsor I'd be absolutely furious!
What will happen if Lewis loses the championship by a small margin? I just can't believe that sort of mistake!... UNFORGIVABLE!!

[mini696]

The rules are not black and white. Don't get me started on whether or not the penalty was needed or not. My personal view is that it was, and I have gone into great detail on other forums discussing why.

However, regarding your comment... Yes McLaren and Lewis know the rules.

Lewis thought he made the pass cleanly, therefore didn't give the place back.

McLaren only had the video which we saw on TV, the stewards had another video which made it clear (to them) that Lewis gained an advantage. So how could McLaren tell Lewis to give the place back when he may not have had to? They didn't know did they?

McLaren would have been on the radio to Lewis, and the stewards to clarify the situation. Lewis would have said it was a clean pass. The stewards obviously didn't tell them to give the place back until it was too late, and then were forced to penalise McLaren.

So yes McLaren do know the rules.

[Rob W]

I am sure that I'm not the only one that knew immediately, while watching the live, on board footage of Hamilton's first lap chicane cutting antics, that he'd gained advantage

Discussed at length in another thread.

They do know the rules but as mini696 said they're not so black and white as you'd think... the wording is to the effect of: "deemed to have gain an advantage or prevented being overtaken by..."

From a close look at the on-board footage it is fair to say he did gain advantage by not completing the pass and staying on the track for the corner in the same movement. Therefore - if you consider staying on the track a prerequisite for racing fairly then it leads to the conclusion he did gain an advantage by going straight at that corner.

Thanks

R

[timbo]

I guess what we see is McLaren's policy not ot critisize Hamilton for any actions. Well, it is right to be a backing for the driver so he can feel that his team believes in him and gain some confidence but it is somewhat unproportional right now. There's difference between "yes, he did mistake, but that's racing and we believe in him" and "he made no mistake, stupid stewards don't know what they do!". Ron Dennis treats LH like he is his grandson and I think that's not very good for race driver. Also, remember Huan Pablo's story in McLaren - two f**kups in the row and he is out...

[zac510]

I am sure that I'm not the only one that knew immediately, while watching the live, on board footage of Hamilton's first lap chicane cutting antics, that he'd gained advantage, and that he needed to let Vettel past again.
I am also sure that Lewis is supposed to know the rules, but giving him the benefit of the doubt, and since he's the one in "the heat of the battle", the Team SHOULD have told him to let him by again.
I'm wondering what was going through McLaren's minds, and if I were a sponsor I'd be absolutely furious!
What will happen if Lewis loses the championship by a small margin? I just can't believe that sort of mistake!... UNFORGIVABLE!!

Wow, you don't sound biased at all!
This is a tech forum, take your petty dribble elsewhere.

[mep]

I'm wondering what was going through McLaren's minds,...

... somethimes I think nothing is going through there minds.


In general I think the punishments in F1 are to hard.
The punishment system should be overworked.
There should be a warning system.
If a driver makes a little mistake, like litle speeding in pit lane,
crossing the withe line or missing a shikane and it's ovious that he
had not done it by will he should get a warning.
And after he has collected a special amount of warnings he should get a punishment.

A lot of good races have been destroyed because of to hard punishments.

[nae]

if he looses by a small margin

cant loose by smaller than one under the current rules and he has done that already

if anyone or anything should be criticised it is the wording of the rules
clearly printed in english to make it as ambiguous as possible

i would love to see an on-board from vettels car, a sliding car in front that all be it went over the kerbs must have lost massive speed and i wonder why he didnt stuff him up the inside into the 180 hairpin

all done and dusted now so lets look forward to the next race

[nae]

mep you make a good point but it seems the idea is to er on the side of caution.
teams and drivers have always and will always stretch any limit imposed to gain even the slightest advantage.

at least they introduced the drive through rather than the 10 sec stop and go
i cant see it being any better if the race is decided after the event or worse yet at the end of the season in the court room

for all that it is unfair to give a drive through, costing 30 secs or so for what would have been only a few secs gain + place. the team should have erred on the side of caution and given the place back, they didnt, they risked it and they lost

its a high stakes game the rewards are high and the mistakes very very costly, its the same for everyone (perhaps except the red team in some peoples eyes)

[ZBimmerfan]

I'm pretty sure they know the rules , but they sure have been penalized a lot in the last year....the better question IMO is : are they purposefully dirty and prone to cheat?

[eidetic]

I am sure that I'm not the only one that knew immediately, while watching the live, on board footage of Hamilton's first lap chicane cutting antics, that he'd gained advantage, and that he needed to let Vettel past again.
I am also sure that Lewis is supposed to know the rules, but giving him the benefit of the doubt, and since he's the one in "the heat of the battle", the Team SHOULD have told him to let him by again.
I'm wondering what was going through McLaren's minds, and if I were a sponsor I'd be absolutely furious!
What will happen if Lewis loses the championship by a small margin? I just can't believe that sort of mistake!... UNFORGIVABLE!!

Wow, you don't sound biased at all!
This is a tech forum, take your petty dribble elsewhere.

And this is the General Chat section.

If you'd actually take the time to read the forum category descriptions you might have seen this, and taken note:

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.

[Ciro Pabón]

What will happen if Lewis loses the championship by a small margin?

We already know what McLaren does in this case: they fire Hamilton's teammate.

[Gecko]

I guess what we see is McLaren's policy not ot critisize Hamilton for any actions. Well, it is right to be a backing for the driver so he can feel that his team believes in him and gain some confidence but it is somewhat unproportional right now. There's difference between "yes, he did mistake, but that's racing and we believe in him" and "he made no mistake, stupid stewards don't know what they do!". Ron Dennis treats LH like he is his grandson and I think that's not very good for race driver. Also, remember Huan Pablo's story in McLaren - two f**kups in the row and he is out...

That has always been the McLaren policy regardless of the driver. They will protect their drivers despite what they internally feel is ther right or wrongdoings. Remember Hungary last year, they were penalized for trying to cover for Alonso by virtually lying to the stewards.

They also never publically said anything against Montoya either, going with the "tennis injury" story first, and they never lashed at him for taking Kimi out in Indy. It was only when Montoya clearly had enough and decided to exit F1 at the end of the season that they separated. Up until that point, there were no external signs of frustration from the team, whatever was going on happened behind closed doors.

So who knows what kind of talk goes behind closed doors at McLaren regarding Hamilton's last two races. But in public, they will always cover for him, that's their way.

[FLC]

This is the official answer from McLaren, or what Martin Whitmarsh had to say about it in the last interview on autosport:

We weren't aware that the incident was questionable until a number of laps later when it was displayed on our monitors that Car 22 was under investigation. At that point, we asked the FIA for a clarification and were informed of the incident at Turn Seven. When the footage was replayed, it looked to us as if Lewis was comfortably past the other car before he straightlined the chicane.

We expressed our opinion to the FIA but, by that point it was not possible to ask Lewis to drop back and relinquish the position. If somebody had told us about it at the time, we would have asked the race director if he wanted us to give the place back. In the cockpit, Lewis felt he was already ahead when he made the mistake and didn't feel it was an issue to raise with the team.

Sounds hard to believe and goes well with some of the other ridiculous statements they released lately. If the guy who updates the Live Timing thing on the official F1 site could ask himself right away if LH's move was legal and if he might get another penalty, surely a bunch of professionals with tons of experience could do the same. They had more than enough time to ask the FIA officials if they were supposed to give back the place.
The fact (?) that LH didn't feel it was an issue to raise with the team speaks for itself. Probably his inexperience, which is acceptable, but this is exactly where his team should have helped him.

[dumrick]

Drivers are being increasingly treated as school kids. Nevermind the accident itself, I would like to know who empowers the stewards to understand if he missed the apex in the second S for going too fast into the first corner, to avoid Vettel from colliding with him or because he got his foot tangled behind the throttle...

I've been watching F1 for more than 25 years and now it feels it's ruled by the Gestapo.

[timbo]

Drivers are being increasingly treated as school kids. Nevermind the accident itself, I would like to know who empowers the stewards to understand if he missed the apex in the second S for going too fast into the first corner, to avoid Vettel from colliding with him or because he got his foot tangled behind the throttle...

I've been watching F1 for more than 25 years and now it feels it's ruled by the Gestapo.

What was your opinion when Schumacher parked ar Raskasse? Could you tell for sure he deliberately parked his car to avoid others finishing their laps? In sports presumption of innocense works backwards.