McLaren MCL33

[DiogoBrand]

It also broke pretty much exactly where the pull rod is attached. With a reduced lever for the pull rod to act, it needs to exert an increased force. If you take too many liberties with the curbs this sort of thing can happen.

[mwillems]

It also broke pretty much exactly where the pull rod is attached. With a reduced lever for the pull rod to act, it needs to exert an increased force. If you take too many liberties with the curbs this sort of thing can happen.

How would the material stress do you think? Would it be fine until moments before it snaps, or would it stress over time and affect the behaviour of the suspension prior to over exertion?

[DiogoBrand]

I have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever about carbon fiber, and I'm not even sure if the structure of the component that failed is composite or metal. If it's carbon fiber, I'd assume that a big impact, either on a kerb or with another car, leads to a small fracture that will only grow from there. Metal might fail either by a fracture, pretty much the same way I described for CF, or by excessive deformation.

Just a wild guess, someone with proper knowledge should have a better estimation.

[wesley123]

Last lap I believe.

But it's interesting, how would that have happened?

Hitting curbs maybe, happened a few times in Austria a few years ago to a few teams

I didn't have the idea that these curbs were that agressive. They missed the baguettes that they, for example, had in Austria.

I have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever about carbon fiber, and I'm not even sure if the structure of the component that failed is composite or metal. If it's carbon fiber, I'd assume that a big impact, either on a kerb or with another car, leads to a small fracture that will only grow from there. Metal might fail either by a fracture, pretty much the same way I described for CF, or by excessive deformation.

Just a wild guess, someone with proper knowledge should have a better estimation.

Considering no one confirmed anything about a collision and the huge run-offs making hitting the barriers near-impossible, my guess goes out to a design or manufacturing error

[iichel]

Last lap I believe.

But it's interesting, how would that have happened?

Hitting curbs maybe, happened a few times in Austria a few years ago to a few teams

I didn't have the idea that these curbs were that agressive. They missed the baguettes that they, for example, had in Austria.

Stroll went airborne in Q1 IIRC, after hitting one of the 'yellow trampolines'.

[mwillems]

I have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever about carbon fiber, and I'm not even sure if the structure of the component that failed is composite or metal. If it's carbon fiber, I'd assume that a big impact, either on a kerb or with another car, leads to a small fracture that will only grow from there. Metal might fail either by a fracture, pretty much the same way I described for CF, or by excessive deformation.

Just a wild guess, someone with proper knowledge should have a better estimation.

Deformation = Fatigue I guess.
I'm wondering if the extra forces being pushed through the suspension might be affecting its durability in such a way that they need to stiffen the suspension to look after it. I'm 90% certain they don't, but just wanted to explore the idea with some folks who have more technical knowledge than me.

[Edax]

I have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever about carbon fiber, and I'm not even sure if the structure of the component that failed is composite or metal. If it's carbon fiber, I'd assume that a big impact, either on a kerb or with another car, leads to a small fracture that will only grow from there. Metal might fail either by a fracture, pretty much the same way I described for CF, or by excessive deformation.

Just a wild guess, someone with proper knowledge should have a better estimation.

What I would expect is what happened with the Toro Rosso front suspension (china 2010): clean catastrophic failure under maximum load. The area most likely to fail is just next to the titanium inserts, due to stress concentration.

I haven’t seen a clear picture of the failure, but it looks like the fracture has an extreme oblique angle and is running through the central area. I wonder wether a sideways impact (pure compression) could have caused it. But without wheelbanging and no wall’s I have a hard time seeing how this happened.

Otherwise I think a manufacturing error is much more likely, with the fracture following the layup of the plies.

[Vanja #66]

Deformation = Fatigue I guess.
I'm wondering if the extra forces being pushed through the suspension might be affecting its durability in such a way that they need to stiffen the suspension to look after it. I'm 90% certain they don't, but just wanted to explore the idea with some folks who have more technical knowledge than me.

If there's no manufacturing errors in a composite part, there's no fatigue.

[Big Tea]

Deformation = Fatigue I guess.
I'm wondering if the extra forces being pushed through the suspension might be affecting its durability in such a way that they need to stiffen the suspension to look after it. I'm 90% certain they don't, but just wanted to explore the idea with some folks who have more technical knowledge than me.

If there's no manufacturing errors in a composite part, there's no fatigue.

Does that hold even if it is stressed in a fashion it is not intended to? I mean a component intended to have vertical stress being subjected to horizontal or torsional stress?

[JesperA]

Ofcourse there is fatigue in composite parts, there is not a single material in the entire world that does not suffer from fatigue. Even if there is no manufacturing errors of the composite it will still suffer from delamination fatigue, micro-cracks that eventually grow to macro-cracks and then complete failure of the part, even if the force applied to the composite is well within the designed parameters - used exactly as intended, it will still suffer from cyclic loading that will eventually initiate the failure.

[Vanja #66]

Does that hold even if it is stressed in a fashion it is not intended to? I mean a component intended to have vertical stress being subjected to horizontal or torsional stress?

The big question in that case is not fatigue, but rather maximum expected loads vs actual loads.

[Thunder]

Ok this went way Off Topic. We have Race Threads to Discuss Race Accidents. As always i would like to ask you to keep it solely about the Car in here.

[mwillems]

Does that hold even if it is stressed in a fashion it is not intended to? I mean a component intended to have vertical stress being subjected to horizontal or torsional stress?

The big question in that case is not fatigue, but rather maximum expected loads vs actual loads.

This is what im getting at, but in laymans terms.

[roon]

[PhillipM]

It's a little strange because you would expect it to have broken the other side of the pullrod attachement really, unless they've got some inboard flex issues that have caused the bond between the insert and the carbon to break, and then it's snapped the carbon.