General Honda F1 Topic

[sn809]

Any chance some of the power unit manufacturing will make it's way to Milton Keynes, a la Mercedes HPP in Brixworth? Aston Martin and Honda aren't exactly competing for market share, so there could even be some cooperation between those two entities as well, beyond finance. Can these three (AM, RB, and Honda) in concert bootstrap a powertrain division comparable to HPP? What role could Tag Heuer play?

Sidenote: Did you know that Merc-HPP's predecessor Ilmor "between 2003 and 2005 had been contracted to co-develop, [arrange], [prepare] and tune up Honda's IndyCar Series engines until 2011."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes_ ... owertrains

I am sure it has the ability to ensure timing is kept to schedule down to the very milli second if so required. BTW you could do with a Tag its not April. LOL

[Squid]

Since the latter part of last season, Honda has pulled out all the stops to win over Red Bull's trust.

Ultimately however, the performance of its latest-spec engine introduced in Canada, and the insight its future partner was given, was the deal breaker.

This part is very confusing in the context of the article. It's worded in a way that makes it seem like the deal isn't going to happen.

[HPD]

"We have Dr. Marko and Red Bull Racing team boss Christian Horner was invited to our development center in Sakura last year after the race in Suzuka. In Montreal two weeks ago, I showed them what developments we are planning for this season. In all details. I also explained to them what steps we have already taken, including Evo Level 2, which has arrived in Canada. That convinced them."

"The engine for Red Bull Racing will of course be called Honda. Logically, the RA618H engine of the 2018 season should be followed by the RA619H in the coming year. RA stands for the first racing engines in the 60s for "Racing Automobile", 6 for six cylinders, 18 (or 19) for the year, H for hybrid."

"Aston Martin stands for sports cars, an overlap exists only with our model NSX. We discussed this at the board level. The whole board thinks that's no problem. It is actually quite funny. In Tokyo, opposite our headquarters, a new car dealer has recently set up. For which brand? For Aston Martin. What a coincidence!"

http://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/1 ... acing.html

[HPD]

"Very clearly, the team name is Aston Martin Red Bull Racing and then of course the FIA adds the [engine] manufacturer name," said Palmer.

"But let's be brutally honest. While it was called TAG, everybody knew it was a Renault. And in that sense, [what is] the difference between whether it is a Renault or a Honda?
"Aston Martin has zero cross shopping with both brands. So we are completely indifferent to the name."
"If it was a Ferrari engine I would have a problem!" he said. "And that would be a red line.

"But our customers don't cross shop us with either Renault or Honda, and can I say that Honda is more of a problem than Renault covered up with the name of the TAG? I honestly don't think so.
"We've known about it for a while and we fundamentally agree with where Red Bull wanted to go.

"Let's be clear: we don't have a veto, we were simply part of the consultation process and that is part of the philosophy by which we go Formula 1 racing.
"We think it is generally better that experts in Formula 1 go racing than owning your own team.
"The criteria for us is a very simple one, which is do everything you can to win.

"Clearly the team felt that by going from Renault to Honda, it is going to give them a better chance of winning. In that sense, I commend the decision."
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13690 ... -for-aston

[turbof1]

I was worried about the overlap, in particular with the NSX, but this seems to me that Honda has no plans in the near future for a new sports car and AM seems to hold no issue for that one model.

Still kinda a head scratching situation though. Someone new to F1 would probably think this year "oohhh, AM is supplying Red Bull with engines" (yes, that is not exactly the right conclusion). Next year they are going from a wrongful conclusion to being confused.

Still, a commercial partnership between AM, RB and Honda, would be the obvious marketing way forward. Honda develops a power unit for a new AM hypersport model, Newey develops the aerodynamic platform and Red Bull dips it in sponsorship. Perfect product for the Japanese market.

[Zynerji]

Wasnt the 2010 Sauber team called BMW Sauber Ferrari?

We have had some odd-ball naming conventions in the past. I don't see this as a big deal.

[turbof1]

Wasnt the 2010 Sauber team called BMW Sauber Ferrari?

We have had some odd-ball naming conventions in the past. I don't see this as a big deal.

Yes, although Sauber was forced into that, else they would not receive price money. BMW also wasn't a sponsor. Sauber did want to get rid of that. I personally do put Red Bull's position different.

[NL_Fer]

Don’t forget what was actually a Honda chassis with a Mercedes engine, to take a world title.

[PlatinumZealot]

They say Aston Martin only makes 5000 cars a year so you can imagine its only a drop in the bucket for a company like Honda. No threat to them. NSX is probably an unprofitable Halo car for them too - and the typical Aston buyer won't really be looking at an NSx.

[hasika]

https://jp.motorsport.com/f1/news/-3129710/3129710/
Yamamoto's quotes,mainly google translation,some modification.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————

"One of the biggest reason to work with Red Bull was that we could go for win."

"As long as Honda does motorsports, we always want to win, so we explain to our management team that we can go to win by working with Red Bull,this it the first thing we do and they understand it. "

"If we want to win,i think that Red Bull was the best choice .When i had the meeting with Marko, i felt that Red Bull was very pure regarding the motorsports.How to win,i felt its the common sense between Red Bull and us. "

"When talking with them, we were also very satisfied, there are a lot of pressure, of course, but we thought that there was great significance in doing together, so we were able to reach an agreement."

"From the next season, we will be supplying power units to 4 cars of 2 teams, which means we can supply power units to all of the Red Bull Group's cars.This group has Red Bull and Toro Rosso, both teams have a very good relationship.I think that the race management will be dense if we join to them. "

"I think Mercedes and Ferrari are focusing on their Works team, I do not know how much support they will give to their customer teams.But since we see Red Bull and Toro Rosso in front of us, highly competitive, I think we can see the data. "

"We will continue to fill in details of contract with Red Bull. At this moment the announcement is just a MOU,a basic agreement that Honda signed with Red Bull and supply the powerunit in the next two seasons.In the coming months we will arrange the details. "

"I think we have to do a lot update to our power unit，and it is difficult.And both Red Bull and us must work very hard.It will be difficult for the WDC suddenly next year. Although the emotion are rising, the reality is its still difficult, but I think that I would like to make an effort there. "

"Our target is to ensure that Red Bull does not get worse than this year, and definitely overtake Renault."

"I think now that Mercedes and Ferrari's (power unit) are nearly equal, after that it is Renault and I think Honda is in a place near there，but its still fourth. I think few tens of kW is still needed to overtake Reanult. "

"As you all know, the chassis that Red Bull produces is the top class in the current F1 world, so it is a great pressure to decide to supply a power unit to them, but everyone in the company respects Red Bull, So I am looking forward to it. "

"We have already decided the menu of the update this year so we will shift to the development for the next season in the second half of the season.The engine can only be used up to three per year, so the timing to introduce is also limited. "

"I think the next upgrade will be a small change, its important for the development team to focus on next season and have a good preparation to work with Red Bull next year."

"Of course, as a hope of Honda I would like to run (Japanese driver), but first of all they must get the super license."

[hasika]

So,from the interview we can know 3 things.
The announcement is just MOU at the moment and they will deal with it in the coming months.
Honda is still behind Renault.
The next upgrade wont be a big update because they will shift the development for the next season soon(possiblely some concept changing?).

[makecry]

So,from the interview we can know 3 things.
The announcement is just MOU at the moment and they will deal with it in the coming months.
Honda is still behind Renault.
The next upgrade wont be a big update because they will shift the development for the next season soon(possiblely some concept changing?).

I hope that this finally shuts up Mr.Techman trying to tell us Honda is in front of Renault now.

I hope they start 2019 with a better or equal PU to Renault though. RBR-Honda with Newey and Daniel is something I really want to see beat everyone else especially Seb lol.

[techman]

well a few tenths of kw mean the its a very low bhp value. and we know normally 10bhp equates about 0.1 sec gain. so there is nothing there. and the fact that the honda engine is a smaller compact engine to renault , i believe the overall honda package is better than renaults

[Godius]

https://d2d0b2rxqzh1q5.cloudfront.net/s ... 7caf2c.jpg

Is coming

I think that RBR will make the red ribbon on the car more continuous and wider to incorporate the white Honda hybrid logo on it.

[Bill]

How long you can sustain the top power you have over race distance is more important than large numbers in top end power , merc Honda and Renault have reliability issues since their update in Canada so they will be forced to slightly detune their engine,Honda still have a fuel upgrade waiting in the wing