Automated overtaking

[Big Tea]

Bus lane style overtaking lanes? only those on the lead lap can use them ( I'll get my coat)

[Andres125sx]

No. Winning is the reason for racing on Sunday. Overtaking is merely a by-product of there being drivers/cars with differing ability/performance/"luck".

And what´s the reason someone first tought about putting different cars/bikes/trucks/whatever on a track at same time with same target?

It was only because they didn´t realize they could have organized a time attack race where each car/bike/truck only fight the stop watch?

Don´t you think when they put 20 whatever on a track at same time overtaking might be one of the reason to provide more entertainment?

Ask the ancients.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... .10.12.jpg

Chariot racing (Greek: ἁρματοδρομία harmatodromia, Latin: ludi circenses) was one of the most popular ancient Greek, Roman, and Byzantine sports. Chariot racing was dangerous to both drivers and horses as they often suffered serious injury and even death, but these dangers added to the excitement and interest for spectators. In the Roman form of chariot racing, teams represented different groups of financial backers and sometimes competed for the services of particularly skilled drivers. As in modern sports like football, spectators generally chose to support a single team, identifying themselves strongly with its fortunes, and violence sometimes broke out between rival factions. The rivalries were sometimes politicized, when teams became associated with competing social or religious ideas. This helps explain why Roman and later Byzantine emperors took control of the teams and appointed many officials to oversee them.

The sport faded in importance in the West after the fall of Rome. It survived for a time in the Byzantine Empire, where the traditional Roman factions continued to play a prominent role for several centuries, gaining influence in political matters. Their rivalry culminated in the Nika riots, which marked the gradual decline of the sport.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariot_racing

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... -Fou-4.JPG

No need, I´d say wheel to wheel comes exactly from this

[Andres125sx]

Don´t you think when they put 20 whatever on a track at same time overtaking might be one of the reason to provide more entertainment?

No. If they wanted overtaking as entertainment, they would not have invented a system that puts the fastest car at the front and the slowest car at the back and called it "qualifying".

Remember - racing isn't about the spectators (no matter how much F1 types talk about the show). Racing is about the drivers (and their team where such things exist) winning races. Most motorsport exists at grass roots level and is just people enjoying driving/riding quickly and trying to be the winner. They couldn't give too figs for the guys stood on the grass banking watching.

You, as a spectator, only matter to F1 because you existing means they can attract money from sponsorship. Elsewhere, racing is just about the guys on track and not about "entertainment".

I was talking about F1, but if you want to talk about amateur racing, then I agree, it´s just for fun

But on F1, today money is everything, money comes from sponsors who only care to invest if there´re enough viewers, and most viewers ask for some on-track action.

I know a lot of people who stopped watching F1. Their standard reply when asked about the reason is "what´s the purpose? I know who will win beforehand so no need to waste 2 hours for that".

Then there are purists who enjoy the technology, speed, etc. but those are just a small fraction and sponsors who invest in F1 only worry about big numbers, and the average Joe is willing to see on track action.


That´s the reason for DRS, sparks mechanisms, sprinklers ideas, mandated two compounds per race, Q3 cars forced to start the race with Q2 tires, and list goes on only to increase on-track action and the show in F1

[Just_a_fan]

The realityis that even in F1, the teams/drivers don't really care about the fans. They are all there to win - yes, even Sauber, Williams et al.

If you want to make F1 more friendly to the "I only want to see 100 overtakes per race" viewers, then you need to totally change the cars. They'll be slower and less impressive but they'll overtake each other. We already have that type of car in a number of junior series, of course, but so long as non-motorsport viewers want lots of overtaking then we must lose the heart of F1 to their folly.

In the short term, use random grid places, shorter races - say 30 minutes - with no tyre changes (all on the same tyre) and have 2 races on Saturday, 2 on Sunday with an hour between the two races. That should keep the short-of-attention-span "if it's not 100 overtakes per race then it's boring" fans happy.

[Andres125sx]

Maybe you didn´t realize, but that hypothetical situation you´re imagining about F1 cars being modified to make the casual viewers happy is exactly what we have today

- DRS
- Tires designed to not last what is technically possible
- Cars forced to use two different compounds per race
- top 10 cars in qualifying forced to use the tires they used at Q2
- Reduced wings
- Reduced diffusers
- A million aerodynamic possibilities banned to prevent turbulent airflow or simply too fast cars

And I´m sure I´m missing a lot more

[Just_a_fan]

DRS - yes.

Tyres - yes and no. Degrading tyres was for "the show" - based on one race in Canada. The two compound rule was brought in at the behest of the tyre companies because they were carrying unused tyres around the world. They wanted the tyres used because they have a limited shelf life in terms of giving their best performance.

Q2 tyres was to ensure that they went out and attacked in Q3 rather than saving the tyres, so I'll give you that, but it wasn't for overtaking reasons.

Reduced wings and diffusers was about slowing the cars down as well as trying to help overtaking. They made them bigger recently to make them faster in order to make them more attractive - so it wasn't done for overtaking.

Banned stuff was usually on safety and / or cost escalation reasons, not entertainment.


F1 is worried about falling viewer numbers and they think it's solely to do with "overtaking" and "the show". They're wrong, of course. The principle reason is that F1 is increasingly disappearing behind pay walls meaning casual viewers won't bother. Even long time fans, like me, will drift away from F1 when asked to pay several hundred (£/$/E) to watch. Why? Because there are better things to do with the money and better stuff to watch for free elsewhere. I might play around with a VPN and try to stream it from elsewhere but more likely I won't. So, after 30+ years of watching F1, I'll be watching something else. Well done Bernie (for it was on his watch that many of these pay wall contracts were signed).

[SectorOne]

Spent about five minutes thought on this

Oh i have no doubts on that one

There´s two things Formula 1 needs to look at in order to get closer to karting and spec racing and that´s being able to follow closely in corners and drafting.
You solve those two problems and you have teams (and drivers) of equal skills you´ll have the greatest (and fastest) racing on earth.