General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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McG
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Joined: 16 Feb 2011, 17:45

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Talisman wrote:
27 Jun 2018, 23:17
McG wrote:
27 Jun 2018, 17:20
The logic is that they are still the worst engine after nearly 4 years. Anything other than than that is blind faith, which Honda fans have in abundance. Red Bull and Renault were finished a long time ago, Honda was their only choice.
You may be relying on faith, RBR had all the information they needed regarding both engines so their decision was data driven.

Honda wasn't their only choice. Renault were desperate to keep them as their highly inflated fees helped boost their research budget. If the Honda was as bad as you claim logic would dictate that a team like Red Bull would simply stay with the safe option Renault and who cares about the frosty relationship they have with the French.
No. Honda fans are relying on faith as Honda have not shown any signs of being able to compete with the best in F1. It's ok, that's part of supporting and being a fan, but it's wrong to call it logic or that I'm illogical for not beleiving the same as other people do.
Finally, everyone knows that Red Bull is a joke and Max Verstappen is overrated.

rogazilla
rogazilla
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Joined: 05 Oct 2017, 16:35

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Hate to feed the troll but when logic is mentioned...

1. If Honda engine is 50 hp down on Renault then you must believe that Toro Rosso's Chassis is way better than McLarens.
Or
2. if Honda's engine and Toro Rosso's Chassis are not up to par of McLaren then Gasly and Hartley are better drivers than Alonso and Vandoorne.

Based on your logic: If Honda fans are relying on Faith then what's McLaren fan relying on? McLaren's performance as a constructor since 2013 give you any sign of improvement where you can LOGICALLY think that they will be competitive again? Give me a break...

The discussion here this season, we see the evidence in improvement in Honda and that's what we want to discuss on a technical forum. Same as McLaren and any other cars or PU makers. What you are saying makes no logical sense and contribute to nothing.
Last edited by rogazilla on 28 Jun 2018, 18:32, edited 1 time in total.

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HPD
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Joined: 30 Jun 2016, 16:06

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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McG wrote:
28 Jun 2018, 16:26
No. Honda fans are relying on faith as Honda have not shown any signs of being able to compete with the best in F1. It's ok, that's part of supporting and being a fan, but it's wrong to call it logic or that I'm illogical for not beleiving the same as other people do.
Excuse me. What "signs" do you speak?
You want to see a TR Honda winning races, to be able to say "Honda can fight" (?
Really, do you understand formula 1? :lol: @rogazilla I explain it well

tcooper27
tcooper27
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Joined: 28 Mar 2017, 18:15

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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McG wrote:
28 Jun 2018, 16:26
No. Honda fans are relying on faith as Honda have not shown any signs of being able to compete with the best in F1. It's ok, that's part of supporting and being a fan, but it's wrong to call it logic or that I'm illogical for not beleiving the same as other people do.
Can you quit trolling? Honda scored several 5th/6th/7th place finishes in 2016 and have been steadily improving since introducing their new engine in 2017. They've had a 4th place finish already this year. There's only so much they can do to prove they're able to compete with the best without being in one of the top cars.

Singabule
Singabule
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017, 07:47

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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HPD wrote:
28 Jun 2018, 18:27
McG wrote:
28 Jun 2018, 16:26
No. Honda fans are relying on faith as Honda have not shown any signs of being able to compete with the best in F1. It's ok, that's part of supporting and being a fan, but it's wrong to call it logic or that I'm illogical for not beleiving the same as other people do.
Excuse me. What "signs" do you speak?
You want to see a TR Honda winning races, to be able to say "Honda can fight" (?
Really, do you understand formula 1? :lol: @rogazilla I explain it well
Pfftt.. :lol: #-o One of the best word from HPD ever

techman
techman
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Joined: 09 Jun 2016, 10:25

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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@McG. well next year is coming soon. just wait and watch. the current toro rosso isnt a top car with its rookie drivers. wait and see what a redbull honda can do , without jumping the gun.

Chicane
Chicane
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Joined: 26 Jan 2016, 11:21

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Nobody has an idea as to the exact output of various power units however what we know is relative differences based on bytes from Horner, Cyril, Taffin, Tanabe etc.

It is unanimous that Ferrari and Mercedes are pretty even.

Tanabe says Honda are slightly behind Renault but they want to overtake them next year. They say they have a small update left for this season and then will switch focus to next year,

Taffin/Cyril say they have a significant update left this year. They are saying they want to match Mercedes/Ferrari next season They are introducing a new MGU-K, lighter and more reliable plus a 15hp qualifying mode this weekend with a C spec upgrade later on.

So putting everything together, If Renault match Mercedes/Ferrari next year and Honda overtake Renault then where will that put Honda, on top of the heap ;) ?

I see the biggest challenge for Honda will be the longevity of components. With Toro Rosso they can afford to take grid penalties as they please but situation will be different next year.

Renault's biggest question mark over reliability has been their MGU-K which they have upgraded. They had some issues with Turbo in preseason testing which they seem to have addressed.

Will be interesting to watch how Renault and Honda stack up next season.
Quickshifter

Thunder18
Thunder18
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Joined: 09 Jul 2015, 13:29

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Honda's goal has always been to outgun Mercedes, will that become an unachievable task, who knows, but they are trying and I'm enjoying seeing the progression.

Talisman
Talisman
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Joined: 30 Dec 2017, 01:37

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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McG wrote:
28 Jun 2018, 16:26
Talisman wrote:
27 Jun 2018, 23:17
McG wrote:
27 Jun 2018, 17:20
The logic is that they are still the worst engine after nearly 4 years. Anything other than than that is blind faith, which Honda fans have in abundance. Red Bull and Renault were finished a long time ago, Honda was their only choice.
You may be relying on faith, RBR had all the information they needed regarding both engines so their decision was data driven.

Honda wasn't their only choice. Renault were desperate to keep them as their highly inflated fees helped boost their research budget. If the Honda was as bad as you claim logic would dictate that a team like Red Bull would simply stay with the safe option Renault and who cares about the frosty relationship they have with the French.
No. Honda fans are relying on faith as Honda have not shown any signs of being able to compete with the best in F1. It's ok, that's part of supporting and being a fan, but it's wrong to call it logic or that I'm illogical for not beleiving the same as other people do.
You seem obsessed with talking about Honda fans rather than the engine or the sport.

I’m not particularly interested in Honda fans as they didn’t decide whether red bull switched from Renault. Red Bull did. What do you think they based their decision on? Faith?

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loner
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Joined: 26 Feb 2016, 18:34

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Chicane wrote:
29 Jun 2018, 09:25
Taffin/Cyril say they have a significant update left this year. They are saying they want to match Mercedes/Ferrari next season They are introducing a new MGU-K, lighter and more reliable plus a 15hp qualifying mode this weekend with a C spec upgrade later on.
So putting everything together, If Renault match Mercedes/Ferrari next year and Honda overtake Renault then where will that put Honda, on top of the heap ;) ?
good luck believing Renault ...
para bellum.

techman
techman
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Joined: 09 Jun 2016, 10:25

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Taffin/Cyril say they have a significant update left this year. They are saying they want to match Mercedes/Ferrari next season They are introducing a new MGU-K, lighter and more reliable plus a 15hp qualifying mode this weekend with a C spec upgrade later on.
So putting everything together, If Renault match Mercedes/Ferrari next year and Honda overtake Renault then where will that put Honda, on top of the heap ;) ?
#believeinthehype

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HPD
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Joined: 30 Jun 2016, 16:06

Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Christian, it’s a lot of pressure on Honda but is it also pressure on Red Bull, returning to a works partnership deal?
Christian HORNER:
It’s a positive. We had the option to change or the option to stay where we were and having looked at the progress that Honda have been making over recent months, having had the benefit of looking at the progress of Toro Rosso and how Toro Rosso have worked with Honda. It’s been really very, very encouraging and for us we see it as extremely low risk and of course the upside is what we’re interested in, in terms of what is the potential and I think the commitment, the resource, the facilities that Honda have available to them is really exciting for us. And to be the focal point of attention with the two teams is a fantastic position for Red Bull to be in. We’re certainly very excited about what the future holds and very much looking forward to working with our colleagues from Honda.

We saw you last week in the press conference, just after the news had been announced, but what’s next? What’s part of the immediate process of working with Honda?
CH:
Well, as has been explained we’ve got this construction where we have Red Bull Technology, which is the engineering centre effectively and which will have a large amount of interface with Honda. Red Bull Technology already supplies transmission components to Toro Rosso. It’s at an embryonic stage. Obviously discussions are already starting to focus on 2019, but we have been extremely encouraged and impressed by the collaborative nature that we’re finding. That’s certainly refreshing and we’re looking forward to a new era for Red Bull Racing. We’ve had 12 years with our current partner and we’ve enjoyed an awful lot of success. We’ve had highs and lows but the time was right to make this move. I think it’s an exciting time for the team and for Red Bull.

Thank you very much. Franz, you’ve had works status this year with Toro Rosso and Honda. Is the news of the Red Bull partnership for next year good news or bad news for your team?
Franz TOST:
Fantastic news. We are very much looking forward about this. I think a company like Honda, which is so well know overall, has to win races and with Toro Rosso that’s difficult as we don’t have the infrastructure for winning races in Formula 1 and therefore Red Bull Racing is absolutely the correct partner. Toro Rosso will profit out of this because the synergies between Red Bull Technology will increase. We will have next year the complete rear end from Red Bull Technology. Therefore, I am convinced about this, we will also improve our performance. Currently we are very much involved in all the bench tests and everything. Although we are very low, limited with resources and so on, it’s really a lot of work on our side and in future this is being done by Red Bull Technology, which means we have resources for other performance differentiators, which is quite important for Toro Rosso. In the end I think all three partners will get the most out of it and will profit from this co-operation.

Q: (Scott Mitchell – Autosport) Toto, based on what you have seen from Honda’s recovery from their time with McLaren and the prospect of what they could bring to Formula 1 as a race-winning engine manufacturer, what are your thought on that, and how important is it for Formula 1?
TW:
First of all, as a Formula 1 fan, we all remember the glorious years of Honda in the sport and I have no doubt that they can come back to that situation. For us, as Mercedes, it is extremely important that we have top brands in Formula 1, be it OEMs that have joined the sport as engine suppliers or be it multinational and global brands such as Red Bull, and the more we can attract the better for all of us and the better for the sport. I have also no doubt that they will be competitive. Franz mentioned it before, the collaboration will make another step between Toro Rosso, Honda and Red Bull for next year. And with Red Bull’s technical capabilities and resource they will certainly be of great assistance to make the power unit progress. This is certainly the right step forward, looking from the outside, for all parties. It was important for Red Bull to have a works status. Long term probably the best chance to win a championship. Maybe short term, more work to do. But long terms, from where I sit, absolutely the right decision. Looking forward to tougher fights and tougher battles with Red Bull Honda.

Q: (Julien Billiotte – AutoHebdo) Question to Christian. There have been some reliability issues with the latest spec of the Honda engine. Is this a source of Red Bull moving forward – or are you using Toro Rosso as a sort of a test bed and pushing for performance?
CH:
I think reliability has improved enormously over the last… certainly this season with Honda. We’re not exactly sitting comfortably in our own situation with our current supplier. So, of course, performance and reliability are both things that have to go hand-in-hand with the regulations that we have. I’m sure it’s an area where that Honda are working together very hard on, together with their performance. We’re confident that things are very much moving in the right direction.

Q: (Daniel Horvath – Motorspormania.hu ) Christian, did you have any sleepless nights before making the decision to switch to Honda or was it an easy decision to make, considering their recent gains?
CH:
I think, in the end, obviously we were waiting to see the outcome of the second round of engines which were introduced in Montreal and in the end it was a very straightforward and logical decision for us and one that was very much driven by engineering and certainly there was unanimity within our senior technical group, that this is absolutely the right way to go.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/head ... stria.html

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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I think all 4 will match next year on racepace, efficiency, consumption. Ferrari and Mercedes will have better reliablity and more performance in qualy. It will be a battle for Renault and Honda to unlock true qualy performance and equal the other 2.

anthonyfa18
anthonyfa18
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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One thing I find funny is esso/Mobil start with McLaren honda when the project started and then left last year with to go with red bull. Then McLaren mcl33 used Bp/Castrol last year wail red bull improved with esso/Mobil. Next thing McLaren ditch honda for Renault and Toro Rosso took honda. It funny how redbull takes all of Mclaren and wins with them.

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Zynerji
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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anthonyfa18 wrote:
30 Jun 2018, 20:19
One thing I find funny is esso/Mobil start with McLaren honda when the project started and then left last year with to go with red bull. Then McLaren mcl33 used Bp/Castrol last year wail red bull improved with esso/Mobil. Next thing McLaren ditch honda for Renault and Toro Rosso took honda. It funny how redbull takes all of Mclaren and wins with them.
Funny, brilliant, and sad all at the same time.

I'd love to see the top 16 qualifiers within 3 tenths (without spec cars) ... That is the F1 that I'm thirsting for!