Has BMW lost a step...developmentally???

[ZBimmerfan]

It seems that the Toyota cars are matching the F1.08 with race pace at Silverstone(maybe due to Toyotas adoption of a similar aero component). I fear that we are behind Ferrari and McLaren as teams go , but I would like to think we are a solid 3rd team...what are the group opinions??

[checkered]

It seems that the Toyota cars are matching the F1.08 with race pace at Silverstone(maybe due to Toyotas adoption of a similar aero component). I fear that we are behind Ferrari and McLaren as teams go , but I would like to think we are a solid 3rd team...what are the group opinions??

What Toyota aero component

are you thinking of? According to the things I've been reading since France (esp. Kubica's statements) have me thinking that it was more of a "misstep" than a "lost step"; Magny perhaps not playing to BMW Sauber's strengths anyway (wouldn't expect anything beyond a solid "third team" finish at Silverstone either). Look for bar555's photo comparisons, BMW Sauber's aero "culprits" could become readily apparent between Canada's, France's and the British GP. In Magny they lost braking stability towards slow corners, something where the "Bimmers" actually had something of an advantage previously. I do hope they'll regain composure, all the better for the championship.

[donskar]

I wouldn't worry about Toyota passing BMW any time soon. (Full discosure: I'm a Toyota employee.) BMW had a big lead over Toyota entering this season and I think that BMW has advanced further and faster than the Japanese team.

Unless the Toyota (and Honda) F1 teams can break away from the standard (and excellent) Japanese management style, they could continue to be at a disadvantage.

[ZBimmerfan]

It seems that the Toyota cars are matching the F1.08 with race pace at Silverstone(maybe due to Toyotas adoption of a similar aero component). I fear that we are behind Ferrari and McLaren as teams go , but I would like to think we are a solid 3rd team...what are the group opinions??

What Toyota aero component

are you thinking of? According to the things I've been reading since France (esp. Kubica's statements) have me thinking that it was more of a "misstep" than a "lost step"; Magny perhaps not playing to BMW Sauber's strengths anyway (wouldn't expect anything beyond a solid "third team" finish at Silverstone either). Look for bar555's photo comparisons, BMW Sauber's aero "culprits" could become readily apparent between Canada's, France's and the British GP. In Magny they lost braking stability towards slow corners, something where the "Bimmers" actually had something of an advantage previously. I do hope they'll regain composure, all the better for the championship.

I may be getting my Japanese F1 teams mixed up....it may have been Honda that adopted a hull wing similar to BMWs....I read it somewhere recently , but can't remember where.

[ZBimmerfan]

I wouldn't worry about Toyota passing BMW any time soon. (Full discosure: I'm a Toyota employee.) BMW had a big lead over Toyota entering this season and I think that BMW has advanced further and faster than the Japanese team.

Unless the Toyota (and Honda) F1 teams can break away from the standard (and excellent) Japanese management style, they could continue to be at a disadvantage.

That is pretty cool! What do you see as the main design advantage BMW have over the Toyota design?

[donskar]

This should cause a little discussion:

I think BMW's drivers are superior, both in races and in development.

There seems to be general agreement that BMW aero is superior.

Toyota's engine man, Marmorini, came from Ferrari, where he worked alongside Gilles Simon, so I think Toyota's engine is competitive.

From what I've seen, BMW's chassis is superior.

[ZBimmerfan]

This should cause a little discussion:

I think BMW's drivers are superior, both in races and in development.

There seems to be general agreement that BMW aero is superior.

Toyota's engine man, Marmorini, came from Ferrari, where he worked alongside Gilles Simon, so I think Toyota's engine is competitive.

From what I've seen, BMW's chassis is superior.

hasn't so far other than me

I agree that both Nick and Kubi are first rate F1 pilots....maybe the best right now.
Lewis is definitely in that conversation along with Felipe and Kimi though. How do you feel the management style hinders y'all? I would've thought that the teams would all pretty much be run the same way...I guess I was ignorant

[Giblet]

I think BMW just needs to continue on with their staff and drivers. They have been working quietly and effeciently up the grid since they took over Sauber.

Problem is now that they are the third force in F1, being quiet is no longer an option.

[ZBimmerfan]

I think BMW just needs to continue on with their staff and drivers. They have been working quietly and effeciently up the grid since they took over Sauber.

Problem is now that they are the third force in F1, being quiet is no longer an option.

I like where we are at this stage , but after Magny-Cours and testing at Silverstone it seems that we have regressed.....we are certainly efficient! and I really think our drivers are first rate.

[timbo]

Not a die hard BMW fan but have to say I appreciate them greatly, and also respect them as a team, and Mario Theissen (sorry if I screwed spelling) as a team boss. I have to say that it was only one week-end, if situation continues thru Silverstone than maybe there's something they lost compared to McLaren and Ferrari. One thing I thought of they have less aero on front end than Ferrari and McLaren (no bridge wing) and maybe because of that they lacked front end responsiveness that is needed fore Magny Cours. Another thing I thought of, maybe 1.08 is smooth and slightly understeering car? It is known that Kubica's style is agressive while Nick is smooth and prefers slightly oversteering car, so maybe current car accomodates RC perfectly while not being sharp enough for NH.

[ZBimmerfan]

Another thing I thought of, maybe 1.08 is smooth and slightly understeering car?

ahh!!! just like my Z

It is known that Kubica's style is agressive while Nick is smooth and prefers slightly oversteering car, so maybe current car accomodates RC perfectly while not being sharp enough for NH.

I agree completely....the question is though(not to venture too far off topic) is the style of driving issue just BMW related or to all the teams...notice Kimi has also had trouble as have other 'smooth' styled drivers.

Not a die hard BMW fan but have to say I appreciate them greatly

we'll have to do some work on you then and get you on board the bandwagon

I think a lot of people are pulling for us to do well because we are not ferrari or mclaren!

[timbo]

I agree completely....the question is though(not to venture too far off topic) is the style of driving issue just BMW related or to all the teams...notice Kimi has also had trouble as have other 'smooth' styled drivers.

You mean last year or this year? I heard that Kimi's style is quite similar to MS' so that's probably not too hard for Ferrari to build suitable car for him.

we'll have to do some work on you then and get you on board the bandwagon

I think a lot of people are pulling for us to do well because we are not ferrari or mclaren!

That'd be tough - as I'm long time Ferrari fan . Actually I'm a more fan of F1 as a whole, but there's one team (particularely one team boss that annoys me )!

[ZBimmerfan]

I agree completely....the question is though(not to venture too far off topic) is the style of driving issue just BMW related or to all the teams...notice Kimi has also had trouble as have other 'smooth' styled drivers.

You mean last year or this year? I heard that Kimi's style is quite similar to MS' so that's probably not too hard for Ferrari to build suitable car for him.

we'll have to do some work on you then and get you on board the bandwagon

I think a lot of people are pulling for us to do well because we are not ferrari or mclaren!

That'd be tough - as I'm long time Ferrari fan . Actually I'm a more fan of F1 as a whole, but there's one team (particularely one team boss that annoys me )!

So am I , but it is easy to see where my loyalties lie

do tell...which team boss and why?????