McLaren MCL33

[godlameroso]

godlameroso started referring to it as that.
https://image.ibb.co/kdbCsJ/Dg7g_Zt_JW4_AEZw5_B.jpg

Is that not the mid-wing? And you mean to say that since that is guiding air under the floor Mclaren feel there's no need of the vortex generators on the floor leading edge?

McLaren uses the plate behind the chicken wing to guide airflow around the bargeboard, but there is a void and little flow conditioning, not to mention the plate is interfering with the airflow coming off the chicken wing. This flow stagnation along with a lack of devices in this area is the reason for their lack of overall downforce. The faster teams use vortex generators and the chicken wing elements instead of the plate that McLaren and Renault use. The further outboard the plate behind the chicken wing is the worse it is from an aero stand point. It creates heavy flow stagnation, and robs the diffuser of precious air-mass.

Look at the Williams, they still just have a vertical plate, the only team to be so behind in this area, and they are the slowest team on the grid.

This area is extremely critical for aero performance, just look at how bad Haas was in Monaco precisely because they had to revert to a more simple setup for the race. Due to it breaking off when hitting curbs etc.

[diffuser]

i still dont understand they need doubble the inlet size compared to most others? everyone has blown wheel hubs so its not that, mclaren should really look at refining this area, like other teams, also mclaren are the only ones not running vertical spoon shaped flow conditioners underneath the brakeduct, all top teams does, maybe they should take a look at that.
And like mentioned, they should look at adding those "t-tray catchers" everyone gained from adding those

I think the slot on the left goes through the axle. The one on the right goes through the brakes. I seem to remember it appeared at the same time as the slot on the top(on the brakes themselves and going in the same direction as the wheel would turn). I think if we look closely we would have had 2 slots before and now we probably have 3. I presume that's for tire warming.

[diffuser]

godlameroso started referring to it as that.
https://image.ibb.co/kdbCsJ/Dg7g_Zt_JW4_AEZw5_B.jpg

Is that not the mid-wing? And you mean to say that since that is guiding air under the floor Mclaren feel there's no need of the vortex generators on the floor leading edge?

No,I agree with you, they are far behind. I just noticed that in the picture I posted and was pointing it out.

McLaren uses the plate behind the chicken wing to guide airflow around the bargeboard, but there is a void and little flow conditioning, not to mention the plate is interfering with the airflow coming off the chicken wing.

I think the front back air flow gets guided over that plate by the chicken wing. While the center out airflow gets guided under the floor. That plate creates a gap there that is used to guide all the air coming from the bardgeboard under the floor. You can see that flow in the picture with the flowvis. I agree, the 3 chicken wings solution is better.

This flow stagnation along with a lack of devices in this area is the reason for their lack of overall downforce. The faster teams use vortex generators and the chicken wing elements instead of the plate that McLaren and Renault use. The further outboard the plate behind the chicken wing is the worse it is from an aero stand point. It creates heavy flow stagnation, and robs the diffuser of precious air-mass.

Look at the Williams, they still just have a vertical plate, the only team to be so behind in this area, and they are the slowest team on the grid.

This area is extremely critical for aero performance, just look at how bad Haas was in Monaco precisely because they had to revert to a more simple setup for the race. Due to it breaking off when hitting curbs etc.

The parts they tested to resolve the correlation issues , that I saw, were not in this area. So although I agree that this area is under developed, McLaren don't think this is why they are lacking DF. Hopefully They have a bunch of development in this area they can still use and are just waiting for the correlation to be resolved before apply them.

[Redragon]

What Marca is speculating about the tests of the temporary new pieces

https://as.com/motor/2018/07/03/formula ... 32087.html

[M840TR]

Is that not the mid-wing? And you mean to say that since that is guiding air under the floor Mclaren feel there's no need of the vortex generators on the floor leading edge?

No,I agree with you, they are far behind. I just noticed that in the picture I posted and was pointing it out.

McLaren uses the plate behind the chicken wing to guide airflow around the bargeboard, but there is a void and little flow conditioning, not to mention the plate is interfering with the airflow coming off the chicken wing.

I think the front back air flow gets guided over that plate by the chicken wing. While the center out airflow gets guided under the floor. That plate creates a gap there that is used to guide all the air coming from the bardgeboard under the floor. You can see that flow in the picture with the flowvis. I agree, the 3 chicken wings solution is better.

This flow stagnation along with a lack of devices in this area is the reason for their lack of overall downforce. The faster teams use vortex generators and the chicken wing elements instead of the plate that McLaren and Renault use. The further outboard the plate behind the chicken wing is the worse it is from an aero stand point. It creates heavy flow stagnation, and robs the diffuser of precious air-mass.

Look at the Williams, they still just have a vertical plate, the only team to be so behind in this area, and they are the slowest team on the grid.

This area is extremely critical for aero performance, just look at how bad Haas was in Monaco precisely because they had to revert to a more simple setup for the race. Due to it breaking off when hitting curbs etc.

The parts they tested to resolve the correlation issues , that I saw, were not in this area. So although I agree that this area is under developed, McLaren don't think this is why they are lacking DF. Hopefully They have a bunch of development in this area they can still use and are just waiting for the correlation to be resolved before apply them.

I hope they don’t get stuck in last year’s mentality of focusing all their effort on front and rear wing development and focus a bit on the floor and diffuser too. Although I think they might be trying to solve issues with tyre wake etc due to the new front end and then start developing.

[M840TR]

godlameroso started referring to it as that.
https://image.ibb.co/kdbCsJ/Dg7g_Zt_JW4_AEZw5_B.jpg

Is that not the mid-wing? And you mean to say that since that is guiding air under the floor Mclaren feel there's no need of the vortex generators on the floor leading edge?

McLaren uses the plate behind the chicken wing to guide airflow around the bargeboard, but there is a void and little flow conditioning, not to mention the plate is interfering with the airflow coming off the chicken wing. This flow stagnation along with a lack of devices in this area is the reason for their lack of overall downforce. The faster teams use vortex generators and the chicken wing elements instead of the plate that McLaren and Renault use. The further outboard the plate behind the chicken wing is the worse it is from an aero stand point. It creates heavy flow stagnation, and robs the diffuser of precious air-mass.

Look at the Williams, they still just have a vertical plate, the only team to be so behind in this area, and they are the slowest team on the grid.

This area is extremely critical for aero performance, just look at how bad Haas was in Monaco precisely because they had to revert to a more simple setup for the race. Due to it breaking off when hitting curbs etc.

Looking at this wing area on the Ferrari etc, it seems to me the air is being directed to the undercut instead of the floor. It seems to be shaped in such a way that the air would naturally travel upwards instead of downwards.

[godlameroso]

Is that not the mid-wing? And you mean to say that since that is guiding air under the floor Mclaren feel there's no need of the vortex generators on the floor leading edge?

McLaren uses the plate behind the chicken wing to guide airflow around the bargeboard, but there is a void and little flow conditioning, not to mention the plate is interfering with the airflow coming off the chicken wing. This flow stagnation along with a lack of devices in this area is the reason for their lack of overall downforce. The faster teams use vortex generators and the chicken wing elements instead of the plate that McLaren and Renault use. The further outboard the plate behind the chicken wing is the worse it is from an aero stand point. It creates heavy flow stagnation, and robs the diffuser of precious air-mass.

Look at the Williams, they still just have a vertical plate, the only team to be so behind in this area, and they are the slowest team on the grid.

This area is extremely critical for aero performance, just look at how bad Haas was in Monaco precisely because they had to revert to a more simple setup for the race. Due to it breaking off when hitting curbs etc.

Looking at this wing area on the Ferrari etc, it seems to me the air is being directed to the undercut instead of the floor. It seems to be shaped in such a way that the air would naturally travel upwards instead of downwards.

Yes you're right because the bargeboards make the mid wing end with a high angle of attack. Also downforce producing wings create upwash on top of creating vortecies. The airmass goes to the rear but it doesn't do so directly, when you deny some airflow from going under the floor, and you create a strong suction peak at the floor leading edge, it'll pull air into the diffuser through the path of least resistance. What this means is the airflow you deny from entering the floor though the mid wing upwash gets pulled in from the sides of the car right near the rear tires, this has a strong sealing effect on the diffuser.

Also to counteract the high angle of attack inherent in the mid wing bargeboard combo you see teams like Red Bull Ferrari and Mercedes place slots at the edge of the bargeboards to reduce the drag induced by the vertical sections behind and near the mid wing.

[Nickel]

What this means is the airflow you deny from entering the floor though the mid wing upwash gets pulled in from the sides of the car right near the rear tires, this has a strong sealing effect on the diffuser.

This is extremely undesirable and is the opposite of sealing the diffuser.

[godlameroso]

What this means is the airflow you deny from entering the floor though the mid wing upwash gets pulled in from the sides of the car right near the rear tires, this has a strong sealing effect on the diffuser.

This is extremely undesirable and is the opposite of sealing the diffuser.

Why do you say that? The most damaging thing to diffuser performance is tire squirt isn't it? If you have a strong vortex running parallel to the tire squirt it prevents it from interacting with the rest of the airflow in the diffuser. How is that undesirable?

[diffuser]

So you didn't supply the picture so I'm pissed at you . I had to go digging for myself. As far as I can see they're doing the same thing as RBR even down to the teeth(T-Tray air catchers) in the raised section of the floor.

[PhillipM]

Why do you say that? The most damaging thing to diffuser performance is tire squirt isn't it? If you have a strong vortex running parallel to the tire squirt it prevents it from interacting with the rest of the airflow in the diffuser. How is that undesirable?

Most cars run the vortex down the edge of the floor, keep it energised with the floor slots and kicked outwards around the rear tyre to seal the floor and take as much of the tyre squirt/air displaced by the tyre outboard as they can.
The diffuser generates it's own vortices on the outer section change, that can be energised further by the turning fins inside there, it doesn't need the BB/floor vortex in there to manage that. In fact they'd rotating opposite directions so it'd be pretty detrimental to try to merge them.

[M840TR]

So you didn't supply the picture so I'm pissed at you . I had to go digging for myself. As far as I can see they're doing the same thing as RBR even down to the teeth(T-Tray air catchers) in the raised section of the floor.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgPmj1lXkAAfLlf.jpg

https://www.motorsport-total.com/img/20 ... 200055.jpg

https://imgr4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/F ... 170811.jpg

Here they are on last year's car. Not as profound as the SF-71H



And current ones. Bit empty.

[PlatinumZealot]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dg30EHDXcAA8lVw.jpg:large

I would call this the second main FW philosophy change in the turbo era. After Merc's pronounced outboard vortex tunnel approach. A reduction of the volume below the wing, an expansion of the volume above it, and a footplate-less endplate. McLaren trialed something like this a year or two back.

It will be cool to see the entirety of the FW main elements next year, when the cascades are gone. Obscured for nine years!

It is a pretty clever design if we use the following logic:

The Front wing creates downforce and conditions air stream for use for the rest of the car. It creates y250 vortices and other vortices to help "seal" the floor and to reduce tyre wake. If your bargboards is designed so well that it can properly seal the floor without help from the front wing then that is one front wing function that can be removed. And hence your front wing is less affected by following other cars!

[M840TR]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dg30EHDXcAA8lVw.jpg:large

I would call this the second main FW philosophy change in the turbo era. After Merc's pronounced outboard vortex tunnel approach. A reduction of the volume below the wing, an expansion of the volume above it, and a footplate-less endplate. McLaren trialed something like this a year or two back.

It will be cool to see the entirety of the FW main elements next year, when the cascades are gone. Obscured for nine years!

It is a pretty clever design if we use the following logic:

The Front wing creates downforce and conditions air stream for use for the rest of the car. It creates y250 vortices and other vortices to help "seal" the floor and to reduce tyre wake. If your bargboards is designed so well that it can properly seal the floor without help from the front wing then that is one front wing function that can be removed. And hence your front wing is less affected by following other cars!

How will the bargeboards seal the floor without the front wing? The whole point of the y250 vortex and outer one generated from cascades and endplates is to stop the tyre wake to get into the diffuser.

[godlameroso]

There is still a y250 plus all the conditioning appendages on the nose for next year. The bargeboard/mid wing also create a floor sealing vortex. 2 vortecies dont need to merge the can have "knottedness" even if they're counter rotating.