2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

[makecry]

I think in the long run STR will still benefit from the Red Bull Honda relationship, they will have a lot of cooperation with Red Bull as RB works to get the engine integrated, they will retain a lot more input into what they want from the engine than in the past as a pure customer, and Honda are making significant progress towards having an engine which can compete with Mercedes/Ferrari which beats the hell out of customer Renault and year-old Ferrari engines.

That's a reach. Honda is not even better than Renault right now. We don't know if they will be. They might be, for all we know in 2 years we might have a dominant Honda power unit matted with a very good RBR chassis. But no, what you said is uhmm..more of a pipedream/aspiration than a factual statement.

[Raleigh]

I think in the long run STR will still benefit from the Red Bull Honda relationship, they will have a lot of cooperation with Red Bull as RB works to get the engine integrated, they will retain a lot more input into what they want from the engine than in the past as a pure customer, and Honda are making significant progress towards having an engine which can compete with Mercedes/Ferrari which beats the hell out of customer Renault and year-old Ferrari engines.

That's a reach. Honda is not even better than Renault right now. We don't know if they will be. They might be, for all we know in 2 years we might have a dominant Honda power unit matted with a very good RBR chassis. But no, what you said is uhmm..more of a pipedream/aspiration than a factual statement.

Progress towards a goal doesn't mean automatically reaching it but Honda made a big jump this year, Renault meanwhile has not closed the gap in 5 years now. We don't know if Honda will actually catch Mercedes/Ferrari, but considering Renault's static position relative to the front then Honda looks likely to overtake them and get closer to Mercedes, at least that's Red Bull's take and they are the ones with data to back it up.

[Singabule]

I think in the long run STR will still benefit from the Red Bull Honda relationship, they will have a lot of cooperation with Red Bull as RB works to get the engine integrated, they will retain a lot more input into what they want from the engine than in the past as a pure customer, and Honda are making significant progress towards having an engine which can compete with Mercedes/Ferrari which beats the hell out of customer Renault and year-old Ferrari engines.

That's a reach. Honda is not even better than Renault right now. We don't know if they will be. They might be, for all we know in 2 years we might have a dominant Honda power unit matted with a very good RBR chassis. But no, what you said is uhmm..more of a pipedream/aspiration than a factual statement.

Yes not right now, but I will support them regardless the result. Technical wise honda is more interesting than other manufacturers becase they very open. We wouldnt know if there is any chance to 'cheat' 4 MJ regulation if honda did not disclose their extra harvest strategy for example. Rather than bashing other manufacturers, its more interesting to follow what can they do. As honda fan, critics is your breakfast.

[techman]

iam optimistic for german gp. i think the track will suit TR. i hope they dont use the new front wing , it looks like a backward step. the honda i believe is a match for renault , just need the right equipment and drivers. next year cant come soon enough for me. hope they start early development for their 2019 engine

[makecry]

iam optimistic for german gp. i think the track will suit TR. i hope they dont use the new front wing , it looks like a backward step. the honda i believe is a match for renault , just need the right equipment and drivers. next year cant come soon enough for me. hope they start early development for their 2019 engine

Why would they need to "start early development" for their "2019 engine" if they are going to be using the same concept and hence the evolution of the 2018 PU(which is an evolution of the 2017 PU). Any and all development of the 2018 PU will be carried over, they are not restarting with another concept .

[GhostF1]

iam optimistic for german gp. i think the track will suit TR. i hope they dont use the new front wing , it looks like a backward step. the honda i believe is a match for renault , just need the right equipment and drivers. next year cant come soon enough for me. hope they start early development for their 2019 engine

Why would they need to "start early development" for their "2019 engine" if they are going to be using the same concept and hence the evolution of the 2018 PU(which is an evolution of the 2017 PU). Any and all development of the 2018 PU will be carried over, they are not restarting with another concept .

Not discounting that this years engine development will obviously be relevant to next year's one but i think you're oversimplifying it.
For the same reason Mercedes started early on their M-Series PU's which superseded the PU106's last year and then again this year, they claim the engine is entirely new.. Just because the fundamental layout/concept remains the same, does not mean more radical components or designs cannot be pursued, some you wouldn't debut mid season, there needs to be an idea, proven experiment, reliability testing then finally race application. The RA618H would of had an overall goal design they knew they could achieve in a certain timeframe, then signed off and put through the above for launch with the STR13. Further R&D could potentially show a completely new path to follow but would require a redesign of other components, for example, common issue we hear, ICE efficiency hits a new high, diminishes MGU-H performance drastically, requires redesign, along with turbo, which probably knocks on to other ERS components.. So many things could happen, alot of which a team wouldn't risk overhauling mid season.

[Nova]

Looks like Gasly is softening his tone about Honda.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... r-1060521/

"my point is not that Honda suck, but that because Honda started late they .... suck".


BTW, I think truth ought to be told, so if Honda is slower than the rest I don't mind it being said. The simple solution is to work to get the engine to be competitive, then the truth would be that Honda is a competitive engine.

[Ground Effect]

The fact we're discussing which engine is ahead or how close they are to each other shows Honda have made significant progress. Reliability is still an issue for both of them, with Renault a bit better in that area, but you'd expect them to be significantly better. It'll be interesting to see who will be ahead with the 3rd engine, and of course in 2019.

[gandharva]

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1018816709547962368

[anthonyfa18]

Red Bull has given Honda permission to test engine upgrades whenever they are ready to run - even if it means more penalties for Toro Rosso. Development for 2019 more important.

wow this is big news, with almost haft a season left that is a lot of testing time, raw track data is the best way to improve. i have a good feeling about next year

[etusch]

If Gasly talked based on GPS data when saying 0.9 sec deficit on engine side,
they (Honda) have to make 0.7 gain at least (if we assume others remain where they are)

[techman]

i wonder what gasly will say about william. they are slow on straights also. is the mercedes worse than honda? honeslty a chassis performance is very important. and the drivers more important .look at palmer. over 0.5 sec slower to hulk. drivers make a big difference . maybe gas is not as good as we thought

[Ground Effect]

This is a bit different from what Marko said. Could be just talk...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... h-1061091/

[Wouter]

This is a bit different from what Marko said. Could be just talk...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... h-1061091/

I saw the article. Horner often tells other things than Marko.
Marko determines how everything is going to be arranged and Horner has to do that.
The message from Marko is correct, but Horner says this now, to not discourage STR.
STR has been testing for five months now and will continue to do so on behalf of Marko (and Mateschitz).
Marko always says exactly how it is, but Horner often says what he wants.

[!Technical]

Just putting it out there and keeping expectations low. The car is unlikely to get into Q3 this weekend and finishing in the top 10 is unlikely. Will be very happy to be proven wrong.