Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[saviour stivala]

What is the consensus on what Ferrari is doing with its ERS? Regarding Nico's comment about his insider's information, pretty certain that would be Mercedes, he talks about deploying 20% more. How do you interpret that considering Mercedes must be deploying the -K constantly whenever needed in qualifying condition?

When taking the power of the MGU-K x 120%, you get 192HP, which is pretty close to the quoted figure of "extra 38HP". How could Ferrari go above the 160HP limit?

Could be that the FIA mandated and monitored MGU-K in-and-out sensor is faulty and needs replacement?.

[wuzak]

They can't since it's a limit and going over it would be illegal. That alleged boost must come from the ICE/TC/MGU-H arrangement or it's an aero thing.

Or possibly a fuel thing. But I do not see how they can do fuel and stay legal?

Since Ferrari has to provide the exact same PU and software to Haas and Sauber and they don't show that performance boost the only possibility left is fuel and oil which are not homologated. But a boost of 38hp which only appears sometimes? I don't think so.

They can't run fuel that is not homologated and approved. The FIA checks.

The oil was less regulated in the past - I am not sure about this year.

[wuzak]

What is the consensus on what Ferrari is doing with its ERS? Regarding Nico's comment about his insider's information, pretty certain that would be Mercedes, he talks about deploying 20% more. How do you interpret that considering Mercedes must be deploying the -K constantly whenever needed in qualifying condition?

When taking the power of the MGU-K x 120%, you get 192HP, which is pretty close to the quoted figure of "extra 38HP". How could Ferrari go above the 160HP limit?

Could be that the FIA mandated and monitored MGU-K in-and-out sensor is faulty and needs replacement?.

Every weekend?

And Ferrari know when it is faulty and can exploit it?

[Sevach]

Ahh come on that can't be true
https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/stat ... 9269302273

No way!!!!

[Jejking]

What is the consensus on what Ferrari is doing with its ERS? Regarding Nico's comment about his insider's information, pretty certain that would be Mercedes, he talks about deploying 20% more. How do you interpret that considering Mercedes must be deploying the -K constantly whenever needed in qualifying condition?

When taking the power of the MGU-K x 120%, you get 192HP, which is pretty close to the quoted figure of "extra 38HP". How could Ferrari go above the 160HP limit?

Could be that the FIA mandated and monitored MGU-K in-and-out sensor is faulty and needs replacement?.

Thought that around the time of Melbourne 2014 I read somewhere there were backup sensors present in several parts of the PU.

[MtthsMlw]

Or possibly a fuel thing. But I do not see how they can do fuel and stay legal?

Since Ferrari has to provide the exact same PU and software to Haas and Sauber and they don't show that performance boost the only possibility left is fuel and oil which are not homologated. But a boost of 38hp which only appears sometimes? I don't think so.

They can't run fuel that is not homologated and approved. The FIA checks.

The oil was less regulated in the past - I am not sure about this year.

Yeah I meant by that that they don't have to provide the same fuel to their customers.

[bill shoe]

Joe Saward on the Ferrari power unit's divine intervention-

One the subject of Ferrari, the team's sudden burst in horsepower in the last couple of races has got rival engineers shaking their heads and muttering dark mutterings (as engineers always do when they are being beaten). However, I was told that the GPS data relating to the Ferraris shows most unusual acceleration curves, which rivals have been unable to replicate in simulations. "We can do it if we do something illegal," one of them said in Hockenheim, "but we don't know how they are doing it". I guess I was supposed to read something into this remark…

https://www.motorsportweek.com/joesaward/id/00278

[Phil]

Ahh come on that can't be true
https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/stat ... 9269302273

No way!!!!

What if the gains Ferrari have made with spec2 are only possible for the customer teams with the spec3?

Other theory; What if there are concerns that whatever they might be doing (exploiting something), might at some point be closed and therefore they are rushing out a spec3 so that whatever happens, they'll be free to use this spec as it will be homologated by that spec already in use by customer teams?

[Big Tea]

Or possibly a fuel thing. But I do not see how they can do fuel and stay legal?

Since Ferrari has to provide the exact same PU and software to Haas and Sauber and they don't show that performance boost the only possibility left is fuel and oil which are not homologated. But a boost of 38hp which only appears sometimes? I don't think so.

They can't run fuel that is not homologated and approved. The FIA checks.

The oil was less regulated in the past - I am not sure about this year.

I was not thinking of the composition of the fuel, more the flow rate of it, or possible secondary use of it.
If there was some legal way of holding back just a few cc until the point the 'boost'' appeared, or some way of adding fuel in the exhaust chamber maybe to give more power to the turbo?
I know it was being tried at one time with flexible fuel lines, but that has been jumped on now. But for FIA to test something is happening, they have to have an idea what they are testing for

[CriXus]

Haas, Sauber get Ferrari PU boost worth up to 40hp in Hungary

The two customer teams will each have the third specification of internal combustion engine this weekend.

There were talks about 3D printed pistons last year or the year before.

[Jejking]

Ahh come on that can't be true
https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/stat ... 9269302273

No way!!!!

What if the gains Ferrari have made with spec2 are only possible for the customer teams with the spec3?

Other theory; What if there are concerns that whatever they might be doing (exploiting something), might at some point be closed and therefore they are rushing out a spec3 so that whatever happens, they'll be free to use this spec as it will be homologated by that spec already in use by customer teams?

Other theory makes sense. It would be the same stunt Merc pulled last season, to introduce the last oilburner engine before the loophole was closed, to run it as far into the season finale as possible.

[Nonserviam85]

40hp gain is something huge in terms of engine development, especially in this stage of the development cycle! Is it possible though that this is not only engine related and Ferrari found a new clever way to stall aerodynamic parts to gain this speed increase?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/blow ... e-1064053/

[LM10]

No way!!!!

What if the gains Ferrari have made with spec2 are only possible for the customer teams with the spec3?

Other theory; What if there are concerns that whatever they might be doing (exploiting something), might at some point be closed and therefore they are rushing out a spec3 so that whatever happens, they'll be free to use this spec as it will be homologated by that spec already in use by customer teams?

Other theory makes sense. It would be the same stunt Merc pulled last season, to introduce the last oilburner engine before the loophole was closed, to run it as far into the season finale as possible.

There is no known loophole. FIA made clear that everything on the Ferrari PU was fine.

Oil burning from last year was not really a loophole anymore. FIA just reduced the amount of oil being burnt for all new spec engines starting from Monza. So Mercedes introduced it's last spec a race prior at Spa.

[saviour stivala]

They can't since it's a limit and going over it would be illegal. That alleged boost must come from the ICE/TC/MGU-H arrangement or it's an aero thing.

Or possibly a fuel thing. But I do not see how they can do fuel and stay legal?

Since Ferrari has to provide the exact same PU and software to Haas and Sauber and they don't show that performance boost the only possibility left is fuel and oil which are not homologated. But a boost of 38hp which only appears sometimes? I don't think so.

I dont know the exact percentage number, but I have no doubt that FERRARI are deploying more power in the race than mercedes does.

[saviour stivala]

Ahh come on that can't be true
https://twitter.com/ChrisMedlandF1/stat ... 9269302273

so the new FERRARI power units being supplied to Haas and Sauber which as yet have still to run on track has substantial power improvement!.