Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[AJI]

Can you clarify by bringing up the appropiate regulations? Not saying you are wrong, but this is technical thread where it is expected to be a bit more than just "that's not possible".

I would also like to know the technical detiaps of how Ferrari can operate in free load mode for every single lap of the race and on every straights.

By being able to recharge their ES on every single lap.

To both saviour stivala and siskue2005, neither of you have satisfactorily answered the questions posed… I, amongst others, would like a little more detail if both of you would oblige?

[saviour stivala]

It is a repeat but! "FERRARI is now able to use free load mode on every straight of the lap on every lap of the race. this was made possible by vastly improved reliability, fuel consumption and harvesting".
Normaly up to this FERRARI improvements achievements, free load mode was only used in qualifying were ES being discharged on the next lap did not matter and were high fuel consumption did not matter, it was also used during a race stricktly by permission from pitwall.

[siskue2005]

I would also like to know the technical detiaps of how Ferrari can operate in free load mode for every single lap of the race and on every straights.

By being able to recharge their ES on every single lap.

To both saviour stivala and siskue2005, neither of you have satisfactorily answered the questions posed… I, amongst others, would like a little more detail if both of you would oblige?

I have exhausted my knowledge on this matter....better the experts take over

[siskue2005]

...I guess the debate is how they can do it every lap.

with old skool magic crystals…

[Big Tea]

...I guess the debate is how they can do it every lap.

with old skool magic crystals…

http://blog.rarespares.net.au/image.axd ... 24x768.jpg

I think one of the photographers is onto something here. Fresh from the Ferrari garage.

[Fulcrum]

I think the key-points regarding the trick are:

- It's unique to Ferrari, not its customer teams
- either they have a huge power/deployment advantage or they have found a way to drastically shed drag at high speed

Maybe the battery thingy is but just a nice side distraction. The whole F1 paddock are concentrating on it, because it's a unique feature of the Ferrari power-unit and perhaps Ferrari was gaining some advantage from there. This supposed latest performance increase may be something else entirely.

Given the relation between drag and power, one would have to think it's more likely they have found a neat trick that sheds drag at higher speed than a power increase of 38hp in such a short time that is unique to the works team and not their customers.

We got a GPS comparison of the ten fastest training laps at Hockenheim. This proves what Ferrari's opponents only tell behind their hands. The wondrous speed increase is by no means visible on all straights. And where this is the case, not over the entire straight, but only in a certain area.
The phenomenon also occurs mainly in qualifying, after the start or re-starts and in other crucial phases of the race.

This pattern speaks more to active deployment, considering it apparently only manifests when of maximal benefit.

I don't see how it could be passively aerodynamic. If it were, surely it would be consistent in its evidence? I.e. evident between 250km.hr-1 to 300km.hr-1 on all straights, or similar.

I think the conversation has evolved (and I'm behind on this thread), so if I'm repeating what's already been highlighted, my apologies.

[dren]

As this is technical forum....please give technical details of how free load mode and full delpoyment of energy can be done on every single lap of the race?
That is what I said is not possible due to the restriction in harvesting energy in K and nearly major tracks were only up to 1 MJ can be harvested in a lap (this is due to the track characteristics and other factors of braking duration and time of harvesting.....there is a physical limit....we cannot bend the rules of physics with better technology )....so free loading and full delpoyment won't work in every single lap of the race

Siskue, look up Honda's 'extra harvest' mode. It's basically electric fuel accumulation. It legally circumvents the 2MJ MGUK generation limit.

The energy limit is how much fuel is in the car.

It was interesting this morning hearing McLaren pit wall telling Vendorn not to brake when on throttle because that was why his anti stall tripped his throttle activation. could be he was trying hard to make his ERS-K charge some more.

The drivers use both feet for each respective pedal. I'd expect there to be some overlap between acceleration and braking events. The software should be able to deal with this. Maybe it was a specific map/mode he was in that had issues with it.

[AJI]

It is a repeat but! "FERRARI is now able to use free load mode on every straight of the lap on every lap of the race. this was made possible by vastly improved reliability, fuel consumption and harvesting".
Normaly up to this FERRARI improvements achievements, free load mode was only used in qualifying were ES being discharged on the next lap did not matter and were high fuel consumption did not matter, it was also used during a race stricktly by permission from pitwall.

This is a very broad statement. I'll give you that you have suggested it's due to improved fuel consumption and harvesting, but that is equally as broad. Can you please give some substantial detail on how they have made this step, or is it pure speculation?

[saviour stivala]

with old skool magic crystals…

http://blog.rarespares.net.au/image.axd ... 24x768.jpg

I think one of the photographers is onto something here. Fresh from the Ferrari garage.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... A2nTTAbcjg

it must be FERRARI number 7 with just two foot pedal, as Ferrari number 5 also have an extra peddle on the steering wheel.

[ME4ME]

It's limitless energy that magically is channeled from the cosmos into the Ferrari PU that makes the car go fast. I guess the debate is how they can do it every lap.

It seems they can't.

AMuS:

The phenomenon also occurs mainly in qualifying, after the start or re-starts and in other crucial stages of the race. This pattern has already been observed at the Red Bull Ring and at SilverstoneMcLaren Senna in the driving report . And there is no explanation for this until today. Only guesswork.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ro-benzin/

[dren]

It's limitless energy that magically is channeled from the cosmos into the Ferrari PU that makes the car go fast. I guess the debate is how they can do it every lap.

It seems they can't.

AMuS:

The phenomenon also occurs mainly in qualifying, after the start or re-starts and in other crucial stages of the race. This pattern has already been observed at the Red Bull Ring and at SilverstoneMcLaren Senna in the driving report . And there is no explanation for this until today. Only guesswork.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ro-benzin/

I was being extremely sarcastic. Thanks for the clarification, though.

[dren]

that any attempt at bypassing what the rules allows from ERS-K to crankshaft of which is measured will bhe on the wrong side of the rules.

it won't be on the wrong side of the rules because .....
there is no rule preventing K motor action exceeding 4 MJ per lap .....
if the MJ over 4 doesn't come from ES energy and the K motor action doesn't exceed the nominal 120 kW power

There are only two ERS components that what goes in and out of them is limitted and that is why they are the only two components that what goes in and out of them is measure by an approved FIA measuring sensor and the sensor being positined in an aproved FIA location on the particular element. the other ERS elements that what goes in and out of the is unlimitted nothing needs be measured. any attempt to bypass any of those measurement (sensors) and it will certainly be on the wrong side of the rules.

SS, the ES<->MGUK is limited, the ES<->MGUH is not and the MGUK<->MGUH is not. So, they are routing the MGUK through the MGUH to the ES to bypass the limit. This is legal. We have documents showing Honda did this last year.

Mercedes know this as do the other PU manufacturers. What's interesting is that the other manufacturers are currently dumbfounded as to what Ferrari is doing to achieve their straight line performance.

[saviour stivala]

Siskue, look up Honda's 'extra harvest' mode. It's basically electric fuel accumulation. It legally circumvents the 2MJ MGUK generation limit.

The energy limit is how much fuel is in the car.

It was interesting this morning hearing McLaren pit wall telling Vendorn not to brake when on throttle because that was why his anti stall tripped his throttle activation. could be he was trying hard to make his ERS-K charge some more.

The drivers use both feet for each respective pedal. I'd expect there to be some overlap between acceleration and braking events. The software should be able to deal with this. Maybe it was a specific map/mode he was in that had issues with it.

No it wasnt no specific map mode, it is long to explain and not on topic, to fully understand what does on with braking while on throttle, try get to and read the findings of the inquest of the Maruisa accidents. (both tragic accidents.

[turbof1]

Look, people. I am going to state this very simple: if we are going to have a discussion about free loading and whether or not it is possible, it is going to have to be substantially more fleshed out than just "it exists" "it is not possible" "freeloading is possible" "no it isn't!". If that's not going to happen after my own post here, I will remove the whole discussion around on the base it is pure unfounded speculation.

Like Dren stated, you can't get it out of thin air. The energy has to come from somewhere, and that energy has to come in there through legal means. So source, regulatory base and explanation. Discuss.

[saviour stivala]

it won't be on the wrong side of the rules because .....
there is no rule preventing K motor action exceeding 4 MJ per lap .....
if the MJ over 4 doesn't come from ES energy and the K motor action doesn't exceed the nominal 120 kW power

There are only two ERS components that what goes in and out of them is limitted and that is why they are the only two components that what goes in and out of them is measure by an approved FIA measuring sensor and the sensor being positined in an aproved FIA location on the particular element. the other ERS elements that what goes in and out of the is unlimitted nothing needs be measured. any attempt to bypass any of those measurement (sensors) and it will certainly be on the wrong side of the rules.

SS, the ES<->MGUK is limited, the ES<->MGUH is not and the MGUK<->MGUH is not. So, they are routing the MGUK through the MGUH to the ES to bypass the limit. This is legal. We have documents showing Honda did this last year.

Mercedes know this as do the other PU manufacturers. What's interesting is that the other manufacturers are currently dumbfounded as to what Ferrari is doing to achieve their straight line performance.

As I said only those ERS components that what goes in and out of them is limitted have measuring sensors to measure what goes in and out of them.