2018 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 27-29 July

[GrandAxe]

The actual real reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VCJ2o5x8vQ

This is just reaching for all sorts of clickbaity speculation. The authors of that video do not know the downforce levels of Merc, Ferrari or Red Bull with any confidence, neither do you and neither do I. Neither do they have a wind tunnel to test effects of various conditions on the cars. So, whats all the "we know" stuff?

In direct contradiction of their claims about how the teams use tyres, both Red Bull and Mercedes were in a league beyond Ferrari on a blisteringly hot race (compare Red Bull and Mercs pace and length of time on the softs to Ferrari's).

Whenever any expert starts every sentence with "we know", then you can be certain that they are loading your ears with a pile of croc. The phrase "we know" is the most tired trick of the snake oil salesman.

Lastly, in statistics, there is something called the normal distribution. It evens out chance and farcical arguments based on single events, while making the most accurate predictions about samples of any event. The normal distribution is as scientifically proven as anything can be; it renders the arguments many are making here by trying to pick out race specifics to be outside reasonable expectation.

[NYGIANTS]

another one from peter, this one George Russell asking about Lewis pole lap.

https://motorsport.pc.cdn.bitgravity.c ... ist.m3u8

[foxmulder_ms]

The actual real reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VCJ2o5x8vQ

This is just reaching for all sorts of clickbaity speculation. The authors of that video do not know the downforce levels of Merc, Ferrari or Red Bull with any confidence, neither do you and neither do I. Neither do they have a wind tunnel to test effects of various conditions on the cars. So, whats all the "we know" stuff?

In direct contradiction of their claims about how the teams use tyres, both Red Bull and Mercedes were in a league beyond Ferrari on a blisteringly hot race (compare Red Bull and Mercs pace and length of time on the softs to Ferrari's).

Whenever any expert starts every sentence with "we know", then you can be certain that they are loading your ears with a pile of croc. The phrase "we know" is the most tired trick of the snake oil salesman.

Lastly, in statistics, there is something called the normal distribution. It evens out chance and farcical arguments based on single events, while making the most accurate predictions about samples of any event. The normal distribution is as scientifically proven as anything can be; it renders the arguments many are making here by trying to pick out race specifics to be outside reasonable expectation.

I agree that downforce amount is not known by them. However, I buy that Merc heats up their tires more than the others. It explains a lot.

[Phil]

...while you guys all go on and continue to argue that the Mercedes supposedly had the better car in the wet, Kimi in the other identical Ferrari actually had provisional pole and wasnt that far behind if he hadnt run into traffic on his last go. He certainly felt the car had the pace for pole in those conditions and Kimi is rarely one to make up things.

I’d also argue that Vettel had two goes too on that fresh rubber, arguably set up well to know which places he had some more margin to push and where not, while both Mercedes only had one.

[siskue2005]

The actual real reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VCJ2o5x8vQ

This is just reaching for all sorts of clickbaity speculation. The authors of that video do not know the downforce levels of Merc, Ferrari or Red Bull with any confidence, neither do you and neither do I. Neither do they have a wind tunnel to test effects of various conditions on the cars. So, whats all the "we know" stuff?

In direct contradiction of their claims about how the teams use tyres, both Red Bull and Mercedes were in a league beyond Ferrari on a blisteringly hot race (compare Red Bull and Mercs pace and length of time on the softs to Ferrari's).

Whenever any expert starts every sentence with "we know", then you can be certain that they are loading your ears with a pile of croc. The phrase "we know" is the most tired trick of the snake oil salesman.

Lastly, in statistics, there is something called the normal distribution. It evens out chance and farcical arguments based on single events, while making the most accurate predictions about samples of any event. The normal distribution is as scientifically proven as anything can be; it renders the arguments many are making here by trying to pick out race specifics to be outside reasonable expectation.

I agree that downforce amount is not known by them. However, I buy that Merc heats up their tires more than the others. It explains a lot.

All the expert views from the beginning of the year that Merc heats up unevenly the front tyres when compared to rear tyres. No where they have said Merc overheats it.....even on long runs they have rear tyre blistering only (Which play into the narrative that they have uneven tyre temp) .... i dont know how that could help them in wet conditions.

[siskue2005]

...while you guys all go on and continue to argue that the Mercedes supposedly had the better car in the wet, Kimi in the other identical Ferrari actually had provisional pole and wasnt that far behind if he hadnt run into traffic on his last go. He certainly felt the car had the pace for pole in those conditions and Kimi is rarely one to make up things.

I’d also argue that Vettel had two goes too on that fresh rubber, arguably set up well to know which places he had some more margin to push and where not, while both Mercedes only had one.

dont talk sense into this mate..... let them have fun pulling each other down

[NathanOlder]

I’d also argue that Vettel had two goes too on that fresh rubber, arguably set up well to know which places he had some more margin to push and where not, while both Mercedes only had one.

Yep, totally, As soon as Vettel was out and had time for 2 timed laps , I thought that was it, he had it in the bag. He could risk more knowing he would get another lap. Lewis, Kimi and Valterri all had 1 lap and had to nail it, which they all did.

and on the subject of tyres, arent Merc now one of the better teams on the tyres. they have run long in recent races and seemed to have had less trouble than Ferrari. James Alison mentioned how good they are on their tyres now in that video posted earlier.

[Andres125sx]

Toni Cuquerella said on spanish TV Mercedes heat up tires so fast they don´t even use heating blankets ( is that the name in english?) for the rear tires, and that obviously is a huge advantage in wet conditions

[basti313]

I’d also argue that Vettel had two goes too on that fresh rubber, arguably set up well to know which places he had some more margin to push and where not, while both Mercedes only had one.

Yep, totally, As soon as Vettel was out and had time for 2 timed laps , I thought that was it, he had it in the bag. He could risk more knowing he would get another lap. Lewis, Kimi and Valterri all had 1 lap and had to nail it, which they all did.

It sounds like you are watching F1 in the rain for the first time. Vettel was much too early on the track. The track was developing quickly, with a minute later, Ham and Vet times would have been close.
So all this discussion is nonsense, no one can judge anything about the drivers or the cars as the strategy was bottled by Ferrari.

and on the subject of tyres, arent Merc now one of the better teams on the tyres. they have run long in recent races and seemed to have had less trouble than Ferrari. James Alison mentioned how good they are on their tyres now in that video posted earlier.

At least you can not see any signs of tire issues in the laptimes in Germany and Hungary.

[NathanOlder]

I’d also argue that Vettel had two goes too on that fresh rubber, arguably set up well to know which places he had some more margin to push and where not, while both Mercedes only had one.

Yep, totally, As soon as Vettel was out and had time for 2 timed laps , I thought that was it, he had it in the bag. He could risk more knowing he would get another lap. Lewis, Kimi and Valterri all had 1 lap and had to nail it, which they all did.

It sounds like you are watching F1 in the rain for the first time. Vettel was much too early on the track. The track was developing quickly, with a minute later, Ham and Vet times would have been close.
So all this discussion is nonsense, no one can judge anything about the drivers or the cars as the strategy was bottled by Ferrari.

So with 2 lap old wets (out lap and 1 flying lap), and over 8 mins of the session to go on a quickly developing track (as you put it) Lewis Hamilton started and posted a 1.36.648 (2 flying laps now)

Vettel pitted, and did his outlap and started a flying lap with 2 min 40 seconds to go. So to put this clear, Vettel had brand new tyres, and was 5 and half minutes later than Lewis' lap began with Lewis on older tyres. So if this track improves by the minute as you put it and Seb had a tyre advantage at this point, he must have blitzed Hamilton's time ? Vettel posted a 1.36.938. So I guess he screwed up his chance, but he knew he had 2 goes at it so it wasn't too bad. He then posted a 1.36.210 after being out a lap and getting a feel for this ever improving track. He started his last flying lap with 1min to go, so now the track was 7 MINUTES BETTER than when Lewis did a 1.36.6 and Vettel only managed a 1.36.2

Vettel bottled it. stop making up excuses sunny.

[GrandAxe]

Toni Cuquerella said on spanish TV Mercedes heat up tires so fast they don´t even use heating blankets ( is that the name in english?) for the rear tires, and that obviously is a huge advantage in wet conditions

Aha! Toni Cuquerella of Spanish TV has to be the source of all the false rumours then, or was it a comedy show?

[mattylwd]

Toni Cuquerella said on spanish TV Mercedes heat up tires so fast they don´t even use heating blankets ( is that the name in english?) for the rear tires, and that obviously is a huge advantage in wet conditions

Aha! Toni Cuquerella of Spanish TV has to be the source of all the false rumours then, or was it a comedy show?

That reminds me of the post-race interviews, Lewis denying that they don’t use rear blankets. But the journalist insist they saw it on the screens in friday practice.

Here’s the quote from fia.com:

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Yep, totally, As soon as Vettel was out and had time for 2 timed laps , I thought that was it, he had it in the bag. He could risk more knowing he would get another lap. Lewis, Kimi and Valterri all had 1 lap and had to nail it, which they all did.

It sounds like you are watching F1 in the rain for the first time. Vettel was much too early on the track. The track was developing quickly, with a minute later, Ham and Vet times would have been close.
So all this discussion is nonsense, no one can judge anything about the drivers or the cars as the strategy was bottled by Ferrari.

So with 2 lap old wets (out lap and 1 flying lap), and over 8 mins of the session to go on a quickly developing track (as you put it) Lewis Hamilton started and posted a 1.36.648 (2 flying laps now)

Vettel pitted, and did his outlap and started a flying lap with 2 min 40 seconds to go. So to put this clear, Vettel had brand new tyres, and was 5 and half minutes later than Lewis' lap began with Lewis on older tyres. So if this track improves by the minute as you put it and Seb had a tyre advantage at this point, he must have blitzed Hamilton's time ? Vettel posted a 1.36.938. So I guess he screwed up his chance, but he knew he had 2 goes at it so it wasn't too bad. He then posted a 1.36.210 after being out a lap and getting a feel for this ever improving track. He started his last flying lap with 1min to go, so now the track was 7 MINUTES BETTER than when Lewis did a 1.36.6 and Vettel only managed a 1.36.2

Vettel bottled it. stop making up excuses sunny.

That is insightful.

[ringo]

Pointless speculation about which car is better in the wet.
Hamilton was just, as usual, on another level in the rain. Simple. no tyre explanation needed.
Also i smile when i see the argument about the car is X% and driver is Y%. This argument works fine when talking about a Dry track and a car driving to its limit, but it doesn't hold at all when it's pouring rain on the track.

A lap can have 20 corners, where two different, but equal cars in every way, can take 18 corners at the same exact pace, but then there are those those 2 pesky and slippery corners where one driver is not going to lose any time driving through it, and the other is going to slip and slide, and decide to back off going through it and subsequently lose 2 seconds over the lap in those two corners. This scenario tosses out that "the driver cannot do more than the car can give" argument.
This is where you see Hamilton smashing out those ridiculous pole lap gaps by 2 and 3 seconds; it has nothing to do with car advantage. He is simply keeping up the pace in the wetter sections of the track where others are backing off or driving the wrong line because they aren't as sure or confident to deal with reacting to the uncertainty of the wet.

I think this is a good example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifvbapD8B2Q

[Andres125sx]

Toni Cuquerella said on spanish TV Mercedes heat up tires so fast they don´t even use heating blankets ( is that the name in english?) for the rear tires, and that obviously is a huge advantage in wet conditions

Aha! Toni Cuquerella of Spanish TV has to be the source of all the false rumours then, or was it a comedy show?

Probably you don´t know, but he´s a former HRT, BMW and Ferrari F1 teams engineer, so if I have to choose between your opinion and his...

Maybe he was not literal, maybe they use them but for a much shorter period, maybe they only stop using them on hot days and tracks.... who knows, but you can be sure he never talk BS so there must be something there, wich is an unquestionable evidence Mercedes put his rear tires on temperature much easier than any other team

Actually I consider him the most reliable F1 source you can find on a TV by a good margin, he´s not a journalist, he´s an experienced F1 engineer