Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[henry]

They may for qualifying, ES storage is an issue of course, but you can go back to the oversized/overspun turbo and wind it up the lap before.

IMO that spun up turbo will help for no more than a few tenths of a second at the most. The inertia’s are just not big enough.

I think the inertia of the assembly is around 6E-04 kgm2. Spinning up from 100k to 125k rpm would store around 20kJ. Enough for 0.17 seconds at 120kW.

What happens to the boost if you increase the speed by that amount?

[Tommy Cookers]

Electric supercharger mode should not be underestimated. Reducing exhaust back pressure by 2.5 bar will increase output by up to 35 kW. The electrical cost is perhaps 65 kW.
Beyond this, increasing the boost from 3.5 bar abs to 4.5 will further increase output (via positive intake pumping work) by up to 14 kW although at an additional electrical cost of perhaps 45 kW.

Any reason to stop at 4.5?

huge reason to stop at 4.5 (this may have been said)
there's only one AFR where the (a) combustion is optimal and (b) the heat dilution is as full as possible consistent with (a)

we might think 4.5 bar and 3.5 bar cannot both be right - unless they have the same AFR
so we would burn fuel at 100 kg/hr in electric supercharge and eg 80 kg/hr in turbocharge ?
but 4.5 supercharge work is disproportionate so even post-combustion temp may be higher than otherwise expected
so the fuel rates might be 100 kg/hr in electric supercharge and 90 kg/hr in turbocharge ?

[gruntguru]

The "tubocharge" or self sustaining mode has to be considered the default mode and no doubt operates with 100 kg/hr FFR. Electric supercharge is an inefficient mode that provides a little more power when required. (Naturally also at 100 kg/hr)

[Thunder]

Once again some posts have been removed.

And once again i will point out there is a General Honda F1 Topic for General Honda Talk.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26921

[flexcon]

Possibly imagining it, but there is an exhaust frequency I'm not particularly familiar with from the Honda PU.. it's sounding different here. Also missing that 2nd and 3rd grinding sound going into gears they've had year round. Update maybe?
Thoughts?

https://twitter.com/ToroRosso/status/10 ... 68000?s=09

If I remember correctly,

Wasn't that grinding sound on last years McLaren and not this years Torro Rossa?

Certainly testing in Barcelona it wasn't evident, I never heard it once.

[GhostF1]

Possibly imagining it, but there is an exhaust frequency I'm not particularly familiar with from the Honda PU.. it's sounding different here. Also missing that 2nd and 3rd grinding sound going into gears they've had year round. Update maybe?
Thoughts?

https://twitter.com/ToroRosso/status/10 ... 68000?s=09

If I remember correctly,

Wasn't that grinding sound on last years McLaren and not this years Torro Rossa?

Certainly testing in Barcelona it wasn't evident, I never heard it once.

It was on last year's McLaren and it is on this year's Toro Rosso. It's most definitely there on the second shift. It's very noticeable.

[flexcon]

Possibly imagining it, but there is an exhaust frequency I'm not particularly familiar with from the Honda PU.. it's sounding different here. Also missing that 2nd and 3rd grinding sound going into gears they've had year round. Update maybe?
Thoughts?

https://twitter.com/ToroRosso/status/10 ... 68000?s=09

If I remember correctly,

Wasn't that grinding sound on last years McLaren and not this years Torro Rossa?

Certainly testing in Barcelona it wasn't evident, I never heard it once.

It was on last year's McLaren and it is on this year's Toro Rosso. It's most definitely there on the second shift. It's very noticeable.

Strange I never heard that in testing and I was glued to the Torro Rosso.
Wasn't that noise down to having to reduce vibrations with the gearbox and changing oddly. I must admit I am going on posts from last year and they seemed to be one plausible theory.
Otherwise, what the hell is that?

[GhostF1]

If I remember correctly,

Wasn't that grinding sound on last years McLaren and not this years Torro Rossa?

Certainly testing in Barcelona it wasn't evident, I never heard it once.

It was on last year's McLaren and it is on this year's Toro Rosso. It's most definitely there on the second shift. It's very noticeable.

Strange I never heard that in testing and I was glued to the Torro Rosso.
Wasn't that noise down to having to reduce vibrations with the gearbox and changing oddly. I must admit I am going on posts from last year and they seemed to be one plausible theory.
Otherwise, what the hell is that?

Just a quick search but listen to this. Around 0:16
https://youtu.be/E1p3CTNdn2g

Not sure what it is to be honest. Some weird intricacy with the Honda PU, I expect it to be gone with next year's car where proper integration is expected, otherwise I'm not entirely sure what it is.

[flexcon]

Just a quick search but listen to this. Around 0:16
https://youtu.be/E1p3CTNdn2g

Not sure what it is to be honest. Some weird intricacy with the Honda PU, I expect it to be gone with next year's car where proper integration is expected, otherwise I'm not entirely sure what it is.

Good find. The first I have heard of it. Looks like he changed gear very early into second right? Cause I have videos also and I cannot hear this sound at all anywhere on track. a few corners are 2nd gear corners.

This video was a slow pull out of the pits.

Try this video.... Not one resonating sound in all the clips.

[GhostF1]

Just a quick search but listen to this. Around 0:16
https://youtu.be/E1p3CTNdn2g

Not sure what it is to be honest. Some weird intricacy with the Honda PU, I expect it to be gone with next year's car where proper integration is expected, otherwise I'm not entirely sure what it is.

Good find. The first I have heard of it. Looks like he changed gear very early into second right? Cause I have videos also and I cannot hear this sound at all anywhere on track. a few corners are 2nd gear corners.

This video was a slow pull out of the pits.

Try this video.... Not one resonating sound in all the clips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3qEZrUJpus&t=92s

Check out @gasly_fans’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/gasly_fans/status/1 ... 50624?s=09

You're right that it isn't audible in that video, but it's even present on the Spec 2 in Canada. This is a tweet from Gasly, an onboard from the Canada GP, engine sounds great here by the way, but it is there. You can hear it onboard at 0:11 and even clearer at 0:58. It's there, it's just the lower gears it seems.
Again not sure what the real issue is. Maybe a gremlins synchronising the motor and gearbox at low rpm because of the aggressive cylinder cutting? No idea haha. Would love to find out though.

[anthonyfa18]

it look like we will only see the new spec 3 Honda Pu in USA at Austin Texas, with spa, Monza and the Home of Honda Suzuka all power hungry track.

Franz Tost says "In Canada we had an improvement that gave us three tenths. We will have another in America and in 2019 there will be more. I am convinced that the power unit will be very competitive," he added.

http://www.f1i.com/news/313386-red-bull ... -tost.html

[Bill]

I think they should be an update on batteries and power management items in spa

[PlatinumZealot]

it look like we will only see the new spec 3 Honda Pu in USA at Austin Texas, with spa, Monza and the Home of Honda Suzuka all power hungry track.

Franz Tost says "In Canada we had an improvement that gave us three tenths. We will have another in America and in 2019 there will be more. I am convinced that the power unit will be very competitive," he added.

http://www.f1i.com/news/313386-red-bull ... -tost.html

Great news. A couple Months delayed but it means they are taking their time.

[dren]

Electric supercharger mode should not be underestimated. Reducing exhaust back pressure by 2.5 bar will increase output by up to 35 kW. The electrical cost is perhaps 65 kW.

Beyond this, increasing the boost from 3.5 bar abs to 4.5 will further increase output (via positive intake pumping work) by up to 14 kW although at an additional electrical cost of perhaps 45 kW.

Didn't the Honda article state they were running in e-charge mode for as much as possible in 2016 but had to come up with the extra harvest in 2017 due to the higher power demands due to the change in tire size and aero regulations?

[maguetox]

it look like we will only see the new spec 3 Honda Pu in USA at Austin Texas, with spa, Monza and the Home of Honda Suzuka all power hungry track.

Franz Tost says "In Canada we had an improvement that gave us three tenths. We will have another in America and in 2019 there will be more. I am convinced that the power unit will be very competitive," he added.

http://www.f1i.com/news/313386-red-bull ... -tost.html

Great news. A couple Months delayed but it means they are taking their time.

Even if is a little disappointing not have the new spec on the toughest part of the calendar, but it will a good test to understand and see how mature the actual spec with it´s reliability and total power now that they had the time to fine tune it. If Honda end these races with no incidents or very very few, I think we can say the reliability is no longer a problem for them and searching for performance is their main goal from now on.