Silly Season 2018/2019

[jz11]

Great drivers of today are not any less greater than those of the past and neither the great drivers of the future would be any less greater than those of today. Greatness can't be compared across generations. Anyone who tops the competition of their generation consistently for an extended period of time, bound to achieve greatness. Period.

I'm not going to argue my point much, but I'm thinking that in the last 8-10 years drivers role in the development of the car has significantly been diminished, driver back then was a bigger part of the equation, and not so much today, that is not to say that drivers today wouldn't be capable to be bigger part of the development, but today they simply don't need to be, there is a whole army of people crunching numbers and coming up with stuff to make it go faster

hence a great driver in the 80-90ties winning championships might be considered "more of a champion" that let's say Vettel in the 2011-2013 Red Bull car

[ScottB]

Russell, quite possibly.

If we assume Ocon to Renault was a goer, and there was certainly enough noise about it, the resultant moves seemed to have been Stroll to FI then Russell to Williams.

Now we have Stroll still likely to move, if his Dad has been paying bills there, leaving Ocon free, Merc would presumably put him into the Williams, leaving nowhere for Russell to go, unless they can ditch Sirotkin and go full Merc junior team.

I think Checo will lose out regardless. I just don't see one team willing to have him. Ocon and Sainz will get somewhere but I don't think it will be in the places they dreamt of.

does checo has not a very big sponser behind him ? i tought so ....he is good enough and has money doubt he will be out of the f1

Yeah, though it depends on who buys Force India I suppose.

Perez undoubtedly gets a drive though, brings cash and is actually quick.

From what’s being reported, Stroll Snr has been giving the team loans, so we can assume he has influence for now, if the new owners let him keep the resultant shares / he ponies up some more cash, Stroll Jnr likely gets the drive. Alternatively, if the new owners don’t fancy that and have deep enough pockets, they can pay him back and do whatever they like.

Merc have Ocon and Russell on the books and will want them both on the grid if they can manage it, so the other factor to consider would be how close do the new owners want to be to Mercedes?

It’s quite possible we won’t see many other moves until Force India’s future is resolved, as both Perez and Ocon would be highly prized, perhaps Perez could go back to Sauber or to Haas, though the Le Clerc / Kimi situation complicates matters...

[apexcontrol]

GPR-A, I get the feeling apexcontrol has probably watched the 90's and 80's in just highlight form. Im fortunately old enough to have watched every race live from 95 and I agree entirely that the battles of the past were no better than today, its just a different type of racing with the extra aero.

Apexcontrol if you think so poorly of Lewis and Seb, you must have had hell watching F1 the last decade ?

yeah last decade where not the best years of F1. but hey, good times will come again no doubt about it
and i still go watch few gp every year, last 15 years spa and now ofcours redbull ring
and yess v10 v8 .....vs the v6 vacuumcleaners .....that damn ers dont like it missing the smell of the brakes
and the sound is dead

F1 is not the same, green and lean maybe, but the cars damn they do not spell racing they do spell uhm nasa ?


funny things i always get those earplugs earprotection, but with V6 if you use them there nothing left to hear
have you ever watched that electric ---, get a god damn headage from that sound

there is no motorsport division that i know off, that is loosing its roots so fast.
some even wanted to stop qualification or shorter weekends.

only thing worth watching these day is max first 10 rounds in full attack mode, can't compare any other driver to his will to win, the others don't have that
wheel banging that's they way it should be, overtaking when not expected that is what shows real greatness

[Big Tea]

Great drivers of today are not any less greater than those of the past and neither the great drivers of the future would be any less greater than those of today. Greatness can't be compared across generations. Anyone who tops the competition of their generation consistently for an extended period of time, bound to achieve greatness. Period.

I'm not going to argue my point much, but I'm thinking that in the last 8-10 years drivers role in the development of the car has significantly been diminished, driver back then was a bigger part of the equation, and not so much today, that is not to say that drivers today wouldn't be capable to be bigger part of the development, but today they simply don't need to be, there is a whole army of people crunching numbers and coming up with stuff to make it go faster

hence a great driver in the 80-90ties winning championships might be considered "more of a champion" that let's say Vettel in the 2011-2013 Red Bull car

In addition to this we know far more of what is going on today. A mechanic drops a driver and its on twitter.
In the days of Senna and early MS we had a magazine every month that had a page or two about them, and we had the opinion of the handful of jurnos who were writing plus the occasional mention of a commentator on TV.
No interactive, nothing newer than a few days unless it was on the start of the show, no feature or Teds notebook etc.

Now I spend as much time in a day as I spent in a month reading F1 stuff. We get photographs of the drivers signing hats, shirts programs etc, back then the time and space was needed to tell us what we wanted, even then most of it was left out as there was not the air time or print inches to report it.

Hamilton has his dog with him would be a one liner. Hamitons girlfriend would not be mentioned except in News of the World (which for those who don't know it had no news and the world ended at the m25, erm, which was not there. )

Driver changes would be casually mentioned at the start of the program or occasional in the press if it was one of the top 3.

Vhs was in its infancy, but I threw out a tea chest of VHS of the Senna and Mansel years when I saw how poor the quality was when I tried to move then to digital.

We just can not compare, even if we lived through them, those younger than maybe what? 35, just can not even think about how to imagine it. When they do it is wrong as the concept is foreign

[apexcontrol]

yeah well F1 racing has never been so easy, almost every corner flat out. waaaaay to much downforce from the wings 75% less wing 25% more power should be interesting

[hollus]

Gentlemen, half of the last 5-10 pages is big time off-topic. Have you noticed how off-topic posts breed more off-topic posts?

Try to stay on topic, please.

"Is driver X good enough for team Y?" would be on topic.
"Driver A is better/worse than driver B" is off topic. If that is the only content of a post, don't post it.
The quality of F1 in past decades is soooooo off topic!
Regarding certain drivers: Hamilton is not involved in this silly season at all. Max is only indirectly involved in it, and the quality of his driving certainly is not.

So, on topic, please?

[Schuttelberg]

but if you put the best things of them together you still will be nowhere on the senna/schumi scale.
and they never will. they are champions but thats it, there are many more of them, and there will many more to come. still would be nice to have a real champ again. F1 needs Racing Hero's not ordinary champs,

ever seen mika vs shumi well thats the way hero's are created

You are one of those for whom, "OH It was great back then" kind of people.

Even in the times of Senna and Schumacher, nothing ever looked extra ordinary while they were still racing. It was only after they were gone, was when the legends started building. While they were racing, it was as simple as the way Alonso, Lewis and Vettel have been racing. Senna, Schumacher, Vettel and Lewis have all got at least 2 extra ordinary cars in their careers with which they simply ran away with poles and wins. In some years, they had par machinery and in some, much lesser. As much as Senna fought with Prost, Michael fought with Mika and Alonso, Lewis fought with Rosberg and Vettel. It only takes a bit of common sense to understand that, 15 to 20 years down the line, there would be legends about what is happening now and somewhere another apexcontrol would be talking about these times in the same breath as you are, for those 80s and 90s.

Even if Senna and Schumacher of their pomp came back and drove these cars, they wouldn't be doing any different than what the current guys are doing with the current cars. It's in all in the mindset of the viewer to look at things differently. Great drivers of today are not any less greater than those of the past and neither the great drivers of the future would be any less greater than those of today. Greatness can't be compared across generations. Anyone who tops the competition of their generation consistently for an extended period of time, bound to achieve greatness. Period.

Post of the year!

[Schuttelberg]

GPR-A, I get the feeling apexcontrol has probably watched the 90's and 80's in just highlight form. Im fortunately old enough to have watched every race live from 95 and I agree entirely that the battles of the past were no better than today, its just a different type of racing with the extra aero.

Apexcontrol if you think so poorly of Lewis and Seb, you must have had hell watching F1 the last decade ?

yeah last decade where not the best years of F1. but hey, good times will come again no doubt about it
and i still go watch few gp every year, last 15 years spa and now ofcours redbull ring
and yess v10 v8 .....vs the v6 vacuumcleaners .....that damn ers dont like it missing the smell of the brakes
and the sound is dead

F1 is not the same, green and lean maybe, but the cars damn they do not spell racing they do spell uhm nasa ?


funny things i always get those earplugs earprotection, but with V6 if you use them there nothing left to hear
have you ever watched that electric ---, get a god damn headage from that sound

there is no motorsport division that i know off, that is loosing its roots so fast.
some even wanted to stop qualification or shorter weekends.

only thing worth watching these day is max first 10 rounds in full attack mode, can't compare any other driver to his will to win, the others don't have that
wheel banging that's they way it should be, overtaking when not expected that is what shows real greatness

From drivers the argument suddenly divebombed into engines?

And I think there's a heck of a lot more wheel banging these days than there ever was in the late 90's and early 00's.

[FrukostScones]

I think Checo will lose out regardless. I just don't see one team willing to have him. Ocon and Sainz will get somewhere but I don't think it will be in the places they dreamt of.

does checo has not a very big sponser behind him ? i tought so ....he is good enough and has money doubt he will be out of the f1

Yeah, though it depends on who buys Force India I suppose.

Perez undoubtedly gets a drive though, brings cash and is actually quick.

From what’s being reported, Stroll Snr has been giving the team loans, so we can assume he has influence for now, if the new owners let him keep the resultant shares / he ponies up some more cash, Stroll Jnr likely gets the drive. Alternatively, if the new owners don’t fancy that and have deep enough pockets, they can pay him back and do whatever they like.

Merc have Ocon and Russell on the books and will want them both on the grid if they can manage it, so the other factor to consider would be how close do the new owners want to be to Mercedes?

It’s quite possible we won’t see many other moves until Force India’s future is resolved, as both Perez and Ocon would be highly prized, perhaps Perez could go back to Sauber or to Haas, though the Le Clerc / Kimi situation complicates matters...

I think if the FINDIA thing doesnt work out PER will partner STR at Williams.
PER should have some kind of deal in this

[n1c0la84]

Hi guys, long time reader, first time poster.
So what's your prediction of next year line up now?

Mine is:

Mercedes: Hamilton, Bottas
Ferrari: Vettel, Raikkonen
Red Bull: Verstappen, Gasly
Renault: Ricciardo, Hulkemberg
Haas: Magnussen, Leclerc
Force India: Ocon, Stroll
McLaren: Alonso, Sainz
Toro Rosso: Hartley, new rookie
Sauber: Ericson, Giovinazzi
Williams: Sirotkin, Perez

Let me know what you think.
Please, be gentle!

[ringo]

yeah well F1 racing has never been so easy, almost every corner flat out. waaaaay to much downforce from the wings 75% less wing 25% more power should be interesting

I think it's about time you drop this discussion. F1 today has more highly trained youngsters around the world vying for just 20 seats. Also with increased number crunching by the engineers, there are increased factors to manage by the driver to stay into a much tighter operating window that any F1 car requires in the past. As someone mentioned, the available data is mind boggling, and with increased engineering knowledge comes increased competition and less room for error from the drivers.
In fact, i would even say that driving a paddle shift car, with millisecond changes, with tyres being monitored to the nearest fraction of pressure and temperature, leaves less room for error lap time wise than driving a car with a clutch pedal. Increased precision and data from the suspension, the tyres, the gearbox, the engine, has in fact placed more responsibility on the driver to execute more perfectly; as he has a narrower window to full fill the requirements laid out by the engineers to deliver the perfect lap. You just can't compare now to then when it comes to what is easy.
The great drivers of today are just as good, if not better than those of the past when it comes to mental and physical conditioning levels. The guys from the past were probably braver and more mature, but from that you cannot compare. Different eras require different skills from the drivers. You can only compare a driver to his peers.

[apexcontrol]

Bombshell, max did blok sainz no sainz to red bull

<Mod edit: There is a source to this: https://www.gpblog.com/nl/nieuws/18439/ ... ainz-.html and even an english version of it: https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/18442/ru ... sainz.html Both cite the "original source" as the Spanish newspaper Marca http://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/201 ... b456e.html
So, origin in Marca, known for being quite sensationalistic and unreliable at times. Even other news outlets treat that information as "rumour".
In short: there is probably some truth behind this, but it is far from confirmed.>

[Godius]

Don't see how Verstappen has the authority to block someone as a teammate for next year. This is something you generally only see with multiple world championship winners like Hamilton and Vettel.

[Edax]

Don't see how Verstappen has the authority to block someone as a teammate for next year. This is something you generally only see with multiple world championship winners like Hamilton and Vettel.

I don’t think he has. I think his management team might object, but not because of Sainz junior.

Last year Sainz senior was found to spread damaging and false rumors in the media to advance his sons position at the cost of Verstappen, as well as publicly demanding a better position for his son. This backfired bigtime, resulting in Sainz jr’s departure to Renault.
https://www.news.com.au/sport/motorspor ... 3bf292524b

It is a pity because he is a good driver. But the relation with his father is pretty toxic and not helping him at all.

[NathanOlder]

Don't see how Verstappen has the authority to block someone as a teammate for next year. This is something you generally only see with multiple world championship winners like Hamilton and Vettel.

Max doesn't have that power, this is probably just his opinion , he doesn't want Sainz in the team. How many drivers in the past have been known to have blocked another driver coming in ? One for sure was Prost blocking Senna from joining Williams in 1993. Any other known facts ?