Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[PlatinumZealot]

Some time ago I had an idea about the magical smoke coming from the Ferrari engines exhaust. People are wondering whether it is Oil vapour. What if it is not Oil but Water vapour?

As far as I know injecting water or mixing it into the intake air is not allowed but "things" can "leak" you know

Here's a video by Bosch about water injection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5yLPUVViXI

I'll quote the given advantages:
- cooling of intake air
- higher efficency
- lower combustion chamber temperature
- lower knocking tendency
- allows earlier ignition timing
- possible higher compression ratio

If all that is more or less true it would be quite beneficial to do that somehow.

Still the question remains, would you even see water vapor from the exhaust if you were doing that?
If it is water vapor it would also explain why they are not concerned about the huge clouds on startup in the garage for example.

Water injection uses a lot of water and for best effect alcohol is added for evaporation cooling. It would help a lot with detonation. Even with TJI the teams have detonation issues because of extreme cylinder pressures.
For f1 regs the alcohol would be omitted as it can be seen as extra fuel.
Do you know if the rules would allow water injection? "Cooling the compressor blades" might be a good excuse to use it. A "leaking inter-cooler" would be too crude to work effectively.

[wuzak]

Some time ago I had an idea about the magical smoke coming from the Ferrari engines exhaust. People are wondering whether it is Oil vapour. What if it is not Oil but Water vapour?

As far as I know injecting water or mixing it into the intake air is not allowed but "things" can "leak" you know

Here's a video by Bosch about water injection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5yLPUVViXI

I'll quote the given advantages:
- cooling of intake air
- higher efficency
- lower combustion chamber temperature
- lower knocking tendency
- allows earlier ignition timing
- possible higher compression ratio

If all that is more or less true it would be quite beneficial to do that somehow.

Still the question remains, would you even see water vapor from the exhaust if you were doing that?
If it is water vapor it would also explain why they are not concerned about the huge clouds on startup in the garage for example.

Would water injection improve efficiency in these engines?

I would suggest not if it was to "lower combustion chamber temperature".

The vapour from the exhaust comes from the crankcase breather. Prior to this year that was recycled into the engine.

[saviour stivala]

There is no such thing as a crankcase breather in the design of the formula one engine.

[Dr. Acula]

There is no such thing as a crankcase breather in the design of the formula one engine.

Yes there is. The blowby between the piston an the cylinderwall will cause a pressure increase in the crankcase which would cause all kind of problems among which is powerloss because the pressure difference between the combustion chamber and the underside of the piston would be smaller without venting. Now until this year the teams were aloud to vent the crankcase into the intake in front of the turbocharger. But because of the excessive oil burning, the FIA set a rule in place.

5.1.12 All power unit breather fluids may only vent to atmosphere and must pass through an orifice which is positioned rearward of the rear axle centre line and less than 400mm above the reference plane and less than 100mm from the car centre plane. No breather fluids may re-enter the power unit.

[djones]

Why would the breather pipes on the Ferrari smoke slightly, but we don't see this on others?

I know others don't seem to have pipes out of the back. But you would still maybe expect to see little bits of smoke coming out of the body work etc?

[saviour stivala]

There is no such thing as a crankcase breather in the design of the formula one engine.

Yes there is. The blowby between the piston an the cylinderwall will cause a pressure increase in the crankcase which would cause all kind of problems among which is powerloss because the pressure difference between the combustion chamber and the underside of the piston would be smaller without venting. Now until this year the teams were aloud to vent the crankcase into the intake in front of the turbocharger. But because of the excessive oil burning, the FIA set a rule in place.

5.1.12 All power unit breather fluids may only vent to atmosphere and must pass through an orifice which is positioned rearward of the rear axle centre line and less than 400mm above the reference plane and less than 100mm from the car centre plane. No breather fluids may re-enter the power unit.

No there is not. There is no such thing as a crankcase breather in the design of the formula one engine.

[saviour stivala]

Why would the breather pipes on the Ferrari smoke slightly, but we don't see this on others?

I know others don't seem to have pipes out of the back. But you would still maybe expect to see little bits of smoke coming out of the body work etc?

5.1.2. Breather fluids must exit the car at the rear, and cannot be re-cycled for use in the engine (vents to atmospher). must pass through an orfice which is poisitioned rearwards of the rear axle centre line and less than 400mm above the reference plane and less than 100mm from the car centre plane. no brether fluids may re-enter the power unit.

[Tommy Cookers]

F1 engines over 50 years ago started assisting oil scavenge by entrainment with scavenge of atmospheric air
so there's blowby gas and air to be returned to the atmosphere from a region common with the feed pump region

how is this not called crankcase breathing, mr s s ?

[dren]

Why would the breather pipes on the Ferrari smoke slightly, but we don't see this on others?

I know others don't seem to have pipes out of the back. But you would still maybe expect to see little bits of smoke coming out of the body work etc?

It probably depends on what kind of oil separation system the Ferrari uses for the vented gasses. They may not use one at all.

[subcritical71]

Why would the breather pipes on the Ferrari smoke slightly, but we don't see this on others?

I know others don't seem to have pipes out of the back. But you would still maybe expect to see little bits of smoke coming out of the body work etc?

5.1.2. Breather fluids must exit the car at the rear, and cannot be re-cycled for use in the engine (vents to atmospher). must pass through an orfice which is poisitioned rearwards of the rear axle centre line and less than 400mm above the reference plane and less than 100mm from the car centre plane. no brether fluids may re-enter the power unit.

Could you tell us from which regulations you are referring?

In, 2018 FORMULA ONE TECHNICAL REGULATIONS dated 19 December 2017, 5.1.2 says;

5.1.2 Engine cubic capacity must be 1600cc (+0/-10cc).

5.1.12 doesn’t even match yours;
5.1.12 All power unit breather fluids may only vent to atmosphere and must pass through an orifice which is positioned rearward of the rear axle centre line and less than 400mm above the reference plane and less than 100mm from the car centre plane. No breather fluids may re- enter the power unit.

[digitalrurouni]

Can someone explain to me what the FIA were thinking of venting oil vapors in to the atmosphere?!?! I thought the whole purpose of these engines were to have a greener footprint

And also why only Ferraris seem to emit that kind of vapor? Don't see a Mercedes or a Renault or a Honda doing that?

[saviour stivala]

We are talking about formula one engines, when one says “crankcase breather pipe” one understands a breather pipe attached to the crankcase that vents into atmosphere (FIA 2018 regulations) or into the engine air box (up to 2017 FIA regulations). Such breather pipes attachment to the crankcase is not possible because the F1 engine crankcase is designed to operate in a partial vacuum when the engine is running. Breather pipes in F1 are from oil/air de-aerator/ - oil/air separator and vents into and in accordance with respective regulations.

[dren]

Can someone explain to me what the FIA were thinking of venting oil vapors in to the atmosphere?!?! I thought the whole purpose of these engines were to have a greener footprint

And also why only Ferraris seem to emit that kind of vapor? Don't see a Mercedes or a Renault or a Honda doing that?

It was to stop potential oil burning for power increase.

[saviour stivala]

Why would the breather pipes on the Ferrari smoke slightly, but we don't see this on others?

I know others don't seem to have pipes out of the back. But you would still maybe expect to see little bits of smoke coming out of the body work etc?

It probably depends on what kind of oil separation system the Ferrari uses for the vented gasses. They may not use one at all.

FERRARI like the other four uses a high spinning oil/air de-aerator- oil/air centrifuge - oil/air separator. and that is where the breather pipe vents from and not from the crankcase which is at a partial vacuum when the engine is running.

[dren]

Why would the breather pipes on the Ferrari smoke slightly, but we don't see this on others?

I know others don't seem to have pipes out of the back. But you would still maybe expect to see little bits of smoke coming out of the body work etc?

It probably depends on what kind of oil separation system the Ferrari uses for the vented gasses. They may not use one at all.

FERRARI like the other four uses a high spinning oil/air de-aerator- oil/air centrifuge - oil/air separator. and that is where the breather pipe vents from and not from the crankcase which is at a partial vacuum when the engine is running.

Where do the vented gasses come from before the separater?