Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Wouter]

In a interview yesterday on AMuS Abiteboul said:

How far is Renault in terms of performance still away from Mercedes and Ferrari?

Abiteboul: That's hard to express in numbers because everyone has different numbers. We believe that in the race we are still five to ten kilowatts behind Ferrari and Mercedes and between 20 and 30 kilowatts before Honda. It's a bit harder to quantify in qualifying. The chassis plays too big a role, and with Red Bull the comparison is unfair, because they lag behind in fuel development compared to us."

...five to ten kilowatts = 7 -13,5 HP behind Fer and Merc.
...between 20 and 30 kilowatts = 27 - 41 HP before Honda.

I don't belief that, maybe the other way around.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ricciardo/

[saviour stivala]

That could mean that Renault are not using a 4 MJ battery Pack

The maximum size of the battery back is given by the FIA as 25 KG, which they estimated as 4MJ

Renault probably running a smaller pack or MGU-H undersized to use at all times and unable to keep turbo below the 125,000 rpm limit

a 25 KG battery pack (ES) can most probably pack 12MJ.

[saviour stivala]

When y'all say they bipassed a wastegate and went straight to a resistor...what exactly is being referred to as a resistor? Are we talking a literally reverse peltier style system?

And in the petroleum industry, I'm not sure if you're referring to upstream, mid or downstream...but not all failsafes are reliefs. Many are shut in...but I can't imagine that being done for a ln engine system.

With the change from KERS to ERS the MGU-H was added to the turbocharger, technically speaking adding the MGU-H to the turbocharger the waste gates were not needed, but because of the possibility of the MGU-H failure the waste gate/s were needed as a safety measure, including the waste gates as a safety measure, the power unit design incorporated what is called “the free load mode- electric supercharging mode”.

[saviour stivala]

What is a „Free-Load-System“?

free load system (mode)/ qualifying mode/ party mode: with the engine at full fuel flow allowed, in electric supercharging mode, with waste gates open and exhaust gases bypassing the turbine, with H and K sharing ES power.

Forgive my non-technical ignorance but does that mean that the MGU's are wholly responsible for spooling the turbo whilst the ICE is effectively running with no back-pressure because the wastegate is fully open?

"in electric supercharging mode"
It speaks for itself.

[saviour stivala]

free load system (mode)/ qualifying mode/ party mode: with the engine at full fuel flow allowed, in electric supercharging mode, with waste gates open and exhaust gases bypassing the turbine, with H and K sharing ES power.

Forgive my non-technical ignorance but does that mean that the MGU's are wholly responsible for spooling the turbo whilst the ICE is effectively running with no back-pressure because the wastegate is fully open?

No, not wholly. There is still work being done to the turbine despite the waste gates being fully open.

Yes correct, "there is still work "being done to the turbine". the turbine being mounted on a single shaft with the compressor wheel, the H when operating the compressor in "electric supercharging mode" will have to also carry the wieght of the turbine around (still work being done to the turbine).

[hurril]

Forgive my non-technical ignorance but does that mean that the MGU's are wholly responsible for spooling the turbo whilst the ICE is effectively running with no back-pressure because the wastegate is fully open?

No, not wholly. There is still work being done to the turbine despite the waste gates being fully open.

Yes correct, "there is still work "being done to the turbine". the turbine being mounted on a single shaft with the compressor wheel, the H when operating the compressor in "electric supercharging mode" will have to also carry the wieght of the turbine around (still work being done to the turbine).

I cannot decode your post.

The exhaust gasses are still doing work about the turbine from blowdown energy.

[saviour stivala]

The formula 1 turbocharger exhaust waste gates are not part of and so not build into the exhaust turbine scroll housing, they are totally separate and installed on the part of the exhaust manifold before entry to the exhaust scroll housing, in fact they have their own exhaust tail pipes, this waste gate design is aimed at the exhaust gases bypassing the exhaust turbine scroll housing when fully open. With this system, any if any exhaust gases finds their way inside the exhaust turbine scroll housing are as good as useless.

[gruntguru]

free load system (mode)/ qualifying mode/ party mode: with the engine at full fuel flow allowed, in electric supercharging mode, with waste gates open and exhaust gases bypassing the turbine, with H and K sharing ES power.

Forgive my non-technical ignorance but does that mean that the MGU's are wholly responsible for spooling the turbo whilst the ICE is effectively running with no back-pressure because the wastegate is fully open?

No, not wholly. There is still work being done to the turbine despite the waste gates being fully open.

But yes - the ICE is effectively seeing no back pressure.

[roon]

Forgive my non-technical ignorance but does that mean that the MGU's are wholly responsible for spooling the turbo whilst the ICE is effectively running with no back-pressure because the wastegate is fully open?

No, not wholly. There is still work being done to the turbine despite the waste gates being fully open.

But yes - the ICE is effectively seeing no back pressure.

Can ambient/sub-ambient pressures be achieved in the exhaust system of these small, high airflow engines?

[Singabule]

In a interview yesterday on AMuS Abiteboul said:

How far is Renault in terms of performance still away from Mercedes and Ferrari?

Abiteboul: That's hard to express in numbers because everyone has different numbers. We believe that in the race we are still five to ten kilowatts behind Ferrari and Mercedes and between 20 and 30 kilowatts before Honda. It's a bit harder to quantify in qualifying. The chassis plays too big a role, and with Red Bull the comparison is unfair, because they lag behind in fuel development compared to us."

...five to ten kilowatts = 7 -13,5 HP behind Fer and Merc.
...between 20 and 30 kilowatts = 27 - 41 HP before Honda.

I don't belief that, maybe the other way around.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ricciardo/

20-30 kw behind honda? Impossible, i thougt they still 10kw stronger than honda, but with worse drivability

[McMika98]

Abiteboul: That's hard to express in numbers because everyone has different numbers. We believe that in the race we are still five to ten kilowatts behind Ferrari and Mercedes and between 20 and 30 kilowatts before Honda. It's a bit harder to quantify in qualifying. The chassis plays too big a role, and with Red Bull the comparison is unfair, because they lag behind in fuel development compared to us."
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ricciardo/

Cyril abullshitter at it again. Man the guy is deluded. Maybe he might be talking after this Spec C coming in the next race but aint no way is that figures right as of last race. Cause with spec C they will jump both Ferrari and Merc if they are only few hp behind. Haas and Sauber have been spanking them in the last few races and the nerve of the guy to say they have as good an engine. The guy is certain they will overtake both in 2019 in terms of engine power. Fool me once shame on u, cant fool me again.

[hurril]

Forgive my non-technical ignorance but does that mean that the MGU's are wholly responsible for spooling the turbo whilst the ICE is effectively running with no back-pressure because the wastegate is fully open?

No, not wholly. There is still work being done to the turbine despite the waste gates being fully open.

But yes - the ICE is effectively seeing no back pressure.

But no, there is still blowdown.

[dren]

Might want to revisit this thread from a few years back: viewtopic.php?t=20312

A good read: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/b807167.pdf

For maximum PU power with a reduction in required MGUH motoring, you'd want to take as much advantage of the blowdown (kinetic energy) as possible.

[saviour stivala]

Blow-down turbine: why blow-down?. Because the exhaust gases produced by the engine cylinders are collected into a nozzle that blows into a turbine housing instead of going to waste. Fit a waste-gate before the exhaust gases enters the exhaust turbine housing, open the waste-gate so as the exhaust gases bypasses the exhaust turbine housing and that exhaust turbine is as good as dead.

[henry]

Blow-down turbine: why blow-down?. Because the exhaust gases produced by the engine cylinders are collected into a nozzle that blows into a turbine housing instead of going to waste. Fit a waste-gate before the exhaust gases enters the exhaust turbine housing, open the waste-gate so as the exhaust gases bypasses the exhaust turbine housing and that exhaust turbine is as good as dead.

Sounds a very wasteful option. Why would anyone do that?