2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

[M840TR]

Button on Alonso's retirement:

I said to him he’s finally made the right decision. He’s woken up and smelled the coffee, as we say," Button told reporters at Silverstone on Saturday following WEC qualifying.

"He’s finally made the right decision. It’s always down to the individual when they choose to leave Formula 1. He’s done the same thing as what I chose to do, leave but leave it open for one year after to go back.

"I think that’s the right option to do. But if the McLaren’s quick and it’s winning races, he’ll be back in Formula 1.

Like you said ....One can only hope.

The problem is, things get complicated fast for bringing Alo back in once he leaves. If you're running Sainz and Ocon for example and they're doing well.......you really gonna risk that on bringing Alo in? Sure if they're is an opening but I find it highly unlikely they'll have an opening if they're doing well. It would take a situation where you think the car is really good but one or both drivers aren't taking it to the next level. He should have stayed and had a ton of fun with Sainz. I fear he's repeating the Ferrari mistake.

Sainz and Ocon are no Alonso. If they have a reasonably competitive car Alonso can do wonders like no one else. Plus, they won't pass an opportunity to be the one to make Alonso win in F1 again. Imagine the PR.

[McHonda]

Like you said ....One can only hope.

The problem is, things get complicated fast for bringing Alo back in once he leaves. If you're running Sainz and Ocon for example and they're doing well.......you really gonna risk that on bringing Alo in? Sure if they're is an opening but I find it highly unlikely they'll have an opening if they're doing well. It would take a situation where you think the car is really good but one or both drivers aren't taking it to the next level. He should have stayed and had a ton of fun with Sainz. I fear he's repeating the Ferrari mistake.

If Lewis or Max was available and wanted to come in that situation would you bring one of them in over Sainz or Ocon?

Same obvious answer for Alonso, Hulk has shown Sainz's level and Ocon can't unseat Bottas, it's a total no-brainer to bring Alonso in if/when the car can challenge. Only time it wouldn't be is if it was Sainz+Norris and Lando really is a top tier driver and they don't want the drama like the other top budgeted teams. Alonso vs a young Brit and the press would be back at it trying to create another 2007 so I'd avoid that one like the plague.

Well, it's a no brainer to bring in Alo at Ferrari to partner Vettel but that's not happening either. In spite of all the times RAI lets him passed or does something to help his race.

It's not a no brainer for Ferrari at all because it's bound to kick off between them, they openly don't get on and they're both top drivers so it's bound to be competitive. Recipe for disaster.

Bit different to replacing Sainz or Ocon. Norris yes if he's as good as he looks for various reasons but not Sainz or Ocon, you'd take Alonso every day of the week and twice on Sunday for the exposure alone never mind the performance.

[Zynerji]

Honestly, I'd never take Alonso as a team owner.

Give me 2 guys that harmonize any day over that headache.

[zoroastar]

Honestly, I'd never take Alonso as a team owner.

Give me 2 guys that harmonize any day over that headache.

so you can sit comfortably in the midfield instead of possible podiums or wins. no team has won a championship without their fair share of headaches. especially the dominant teams. mclaren of the 80's had senna and prost, redbull had vettel and webber, mercedes with hamilton and rosberg. dont let your hate come between you and success when you become a team owner, never.

[bill shoe]

Honestly, I'd never take Alonso as a team owner.

Give me 2 guys that harmonize any day over that headache.

so you can sit comfortably in the midfield instead of possible podiums or wins. no team has won a championship without their fair share of headaches. especially the dominant teams. mclaren of the 80's had senna and prost, redbull had vettel and webber, mercedes with hamilton and rosberg. dont let your hate come between you and success when you become a team owner, never.

If I'm a team owner, can I decide not to hire a driver with a proven track record of trying to blackmail team owners? I don't remember any of the teams you mention putting up with this.

To Ron Dennis's eternal credit, he did not put up with it. I would argue that the consequent lack of a championship that year is traceable to his ultimate departure from F1 many years later. Say what you want but he insisted on doing it right or not at all. It won him many and lost him a few. Not bad.

The blackmail attempt won Alonso a cumulative total of 0 (zero, none, etc.) driver championships since the day he attempted it. Did he even win any subsequent races other than the crash-gate thing with Piquet Jr.?

[Zynerji]

Honestly, I'd never take Alonso as a team owner.

Give me 2 guys that harmonize any day over that headache.

so you can sit comfortably in the midfield instead of possible podiums or wins. no team has won a championship without their fair share of headaches. especially the dominant teams. mclaren of the 80's had senna and prost, redbull had vettel and webber, mercedes with hamilton and rosberg. dont let your hate come between you and success when you become a team owner, never.

Well, since Alonso has been prolific in not winning championships in the last 12 years, and always seems to pick the wrong teams, I think I'd have better odds without him!

[Redragon]

Honestly, I'd never take Alonso as a team owner.

Give me 2 guys that harmonize any day over that headache.

so you can sit comfortably in the midfield instead of possible podiums or wins. no team has won a championship without their fair share of headaches. especially the dominant teams. mclaren of the 80's had senna and prost, redbull had vettel and webber, mercedes with hamilton and rosberg. dont let your hate come between you and success when you become a team owner, never.

If I'm a team owner, can I decide not to hire a driver with a proven track record of trying to blackmail team owners? I don't remember any of the teams you mention putting up with this.

To Ron Dennis's eternal credit, he did not put up with it. I would argue that the consequent lack of a championship that year is traceable to his ultimate departure from F1 many years later. Say what you want but he insisted on doing it right or not at all. It won him many and lost him a few. Not bad.

The blackmail attempt won Alonso a cumulative total of 0 (zero, none, etc.) driver championships since the day he attempted it. Did he even win any subsequent races other than the crash-gate thing with Piquet Jr.?

If blackmail really existed Alonso would never had came back to Mclaren under Dennis direction. Mclaren was doomed with Alonso or no talking to the FIA.

[Zynerji]

Honestly, I'd never take Alonso as a team owner.

Give me 2 guys that harmonize any day over that headache.

so you can sit comfortably in the midfield instead of possible podiums or wins. no team has won a championship without their fair share of headaches. especially the dominant teams. mclaren of the 80's had senna and prost, redbull had vettel and webber, mercedes with hamilton and rosberg. dont let your hate come between you and success when you become a team owner, never.

If I'm a team owner, can I decide not to hire a driver with a proven track record of trying to blackmail team owners? I don't remember any of the teams you mention putting up with this.

To Ron Dennis's eternal credit, he did not put up with it. I would argue that the consequent lack of a championship that year is traceable to his ultimate departure from F1 many years later. Say what you want but he insisted on doing it right or not at all. It won him many and lost him a few. Not bad.

The blackmail attempt won Alonso a cumulative total of 0 (zero, none, etc.) driver championships since the day he attempted it. Did he even win any subsequent races other than the crash-gate thing with Piquet Jr.?

He did win a few at Ferrari. Singapore 2011(?) was an utterly fantastic drive with Seb in his wake the entire race.

[bill shoe]

It's my understanding that there is no dispute that Alonso tried to blackmail Ron. He told Ron that Ron would either give Alonso preference over Hamilton in the championship, or Alonso would tell Max Mosley (FIA) that McLaren had car info from Ferrari that had been stolen from Ferrari. Ron then took out his cell phone, immediately dialed Max Mosley, and conveyed this info directly to Mosley. This nullified Alonso's threat in a decisive way. However, Mosley was a true blue Ron-hater and used the opportunity to crush McLaren and ultimately push Ron out of F1. Mosley, as part of his focus on hurting Ron, quickly downplayed Alonso as a victim of circumstances which was of course absurd, but Mosley made it enough of a perception to stick. But of course F1 professionals like Red Bull remember the reality and won't touch Alonso.

Yes, I forgot about Alonso's successful period at Ferrari. He came very close to dragging an underperforming car to the championship. He certainly won several races. I think he was correct in his judgement that Ferrari at that time didn't have the Machiavelian instinct to go into the gray area, be creative, and win championships. That culture has very much changed under Arrivabene, and for the better.

[makecry]

It's my understanding that there is no dispute that Alonso tried to blackmail Ron. He told Ron that Ron would either give Alonso preference over Hamilton in the championship, or Alonso would tell Max Mosley (FIA) that McLaren had car info from Ferrari that had been stolen from Ferrari. Ron then took out his cell phone, immediately dialed Max Mosley, and conveyed this info directly to Mosley. This nullified Alonso's threat in a decisive way. However, Mosley was a true blue Ron-hater and used the opportunity to crush McLaren and ultimately push Ron out of F1. Mosley, as part of his focus on hurting Ron, quickly downplayed Alonso as a victim of circumstances which was of course absurd, but Mosley made it enough of a perception to stick. But of course F1 professionals like Red Bull remember the reality and won't touch Alonso.

Yes, I forgot about Alonso's successful period at Ferrari. He came very close to dragging an underperforming car to the championship. He certainly won several races. I think he was correct in his judgement that Ferrari at that time didn't have the Machiavelian instinct to go into the gray area, be creative, and win championships. That culture has very much changed under Arrivabene, and for the better.

Ferrari had already filed a complaint in June 2007 before Hungary already happened. Coughlan's wife was caught at a photocopy shop trying to make copies of confidential IP and that's how the whole thing came about. Nigel Stepney and Michael Coughlan were banned from F1.

Another one, the biggest BS in the whole message "Red Bull remember the reality and won't touch Alonso.". RedBull has tried signing Alonso before. But yea, it is always conveniently left out because it goes against the narrative. RedBull tried signing Alonso RIGHT WHEN THE WHOLE "TOXIC ALONSO" BS was at peak. Here is the source,

https://www.planetf1.com/news/horner-al ... -red-bull/

“We got very close to signing Alonso. Helmut and I went to see his management at the end of 2008 for the ’09 and ’10 season, and we offered him a two-year contract,” Horner told Motor Sport Magazine.

another one,

“Then he had another conversation in the back of an Alfa Romeo at Spa airport several years later in ’11 or ’12.

They wanted Alonso right when he had blackmailed Ron and the crashgate happened. The only reason why Alonso is not in a top team right now is the same reason as Daniel plus his age. Both Ferrari and Mercedes have their own number 1 drivers. Neither Ferrari or Mercedes will want to disappoint them. Neither of them would want Alonso or Daniel besides them, especially Seb who has publicly said he prefers Kimi as his teammate when he was asked if he would want Daniel.


This narrative needs to stop but it won't because despite there being ample proof and info out there to shut people up, it never really stops. Not to say Alonso didnt --- up in 2007 coz he sure did and boy he paid for it but this whole toxic alonso bs is just that, bs.

[diffuser]

Honestly, I'd never take Alonso as a team owner.

Give me 2 guys that harmonize any day over that headache.

so you can sit comfortably in the midfield instead of possible podiums or wins. no team has won a championship without their fair share of headaches. especially the dominant teams. mclaren of the 80's had senna and prost, redbull had vettel and webber, mercedes with hamilton and rosberg. dont let your hate come between you and success when you become a team owner, never.

If I'm a team owner, can I decide not to hire a driver with a proven track record of trying to blackmail team owners? I don't remember any of the teams you mention putting up with this.

To Ron Dennis's eternal credit, he did not put up with it. I would argue that the consequent lack of a championship that year is traceable to his ultimate departure from F1 many years later. Say what you want but he insisted on doing it right or not at all. It won him many and lost him a few. Not bad.

The blackmail attempt won Alonso a cumulative total of 0 (zero, none, etc.) driver championships since the day he attempted it. Did he even win any subsequent races other than the crash-gate thing with Piquet Jr.?

This has nothing to do with the current or near future situation between Alo and McLaren so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up.

McLaren are very satisfied with Alonso's work and his sharing with the team.

[makecry]

so you can sit comfortably in the midfield instead of possible podiums or wins. no team has won a championship without their fair share of headaches. especially the dominant teams. mclaren of the 80's had senna and prost, redbull had vettel and webber, mercedes with hamilton and rosberg. dont let your hate come between you and success when you become a team owner, never.

If I'm a team owner, can I decide not to hire a driver with a proven track record of trying to blackmail team owners? I don't remember any of the teams you mention putting up with this.

To Ron Dennis's eternal credit, he did not put up with it. I would argue that the consequent lack of a championship that year is traceable to his ultimate departure from F1 many years later. Say what you want but he insisted on doing it right or not at all. It won him many and lost him a few. Not bad.

The blackmail attempt won Alonso a cumulative total of 0 (zero, none, etc.) driver championships since the day he attempted it. Did he even win any subsequent races other than the crash-gate thing with Piquet Jr.?

This has nothing to do with the current or near future situation between Alo and McLaren so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up.

McLaren are very satisfied with Alonso's work and his sharing with the team.

Because every time people run out of things to talk, they bring up "toxic Alonso".

[ScottB]

Ultimately, your 'Alonso' grade driver is valuable in a close fight, so this year, Merc and Ferrari are closely matched, so drivers make a difference. For most of the last few years, Merc held an advantage over the rest that any capable driver would likely have brought home the bacon.

Point being, if Mclaren found themselves with a pace advantage in, say, 2021 (which seems like the earliest realistic date for them to be back at the front) then Sainz or Ocon may well be enough to win. Alonso would be good in a close fight, but then by the early 2020s, who is to say that he would still be quicker than whoever Mclaren have in the car by then? 2 or 3 years older and 2 or 3 years away from F1 driving in very different series, or retired completely by then...

It's entirely probably that, given the troubles on the technical side, with Key not likely to have his feet under the desk in time to have any influence on the 2019 car, that it's going to be the post 2021 formula before Mclaren have the opportunity to mount a real challenge, so I think the 'oh he might come back' chat isn't really much different than when they said the same about Button. It lets Mclaren continue an association with a well known, well liked, very marketable asset, but I really doubt we'll ever see Alonso in an F1 car again.

[McG]

Kimi came back and did alright.

[ScottB]

Kimi came back and did alright.

When he was 30, Alonso would be doing it around 40...