Maybe or maybe not. Contrary to popular belief there is zero evidence to say that it is the cause of the problems at the rear this year. There is only the very reaching and terrible argument that is:
I'd imagine so, if they have any weakness/flex (see the ones that broke on Alonso for example), they've had a full year to analyse any stiffness problems and work on them if need be.
I think they will. Initially when I thought the rear suspension was suspect, I hadn't seen this bar ...
Maybe time for someone to risk it all. I thought they understood what the problem was and how to fix it.trinidefender wrote: ↑10 Aug 2018, 15:58Maybe or maybe not. Contrary to popular belief there is zero evidence to say that it is the cause of the problems at the rear this year. There is only the very reaching and terrible argument that is:
- New rear wishbone is more extreme (even though last years own was very similar to this one and that car was supposedly very stable under braking)
- MCL33 has rear instability
Ergo new rear wishbone = instability
...sounds dumb doesn't it....thought so.
I'm actually going to hark at a guess and say a large part of the rear instability comes from the regulations for 2018 that forced changes in the front suspension and steering geometry which caused compromises in other parts of the car.
Back on point...the choice whether or not to run such an extreme wishbone will come down to a mathematical calculation between what gives a greater lap time improvement, either a lighter split wishbone or a heavier but more aerodynamic single piece.
N.b. Slightly off topic but that seems to be the crux of McLarens woes right now. There seems to be ambiguity in the team to decide what route to take when it comes to car development and car design as there is no one clear leader. No one is forced to stick their neck on the line for fear of it getting chopped off so the reponsibility gets passed from manager to manager in their so called matrix management structure. A bit sad really.
I was talking about this as a counter to a longer wheelbase. I think this is a hell of a lot better solution than a longer wheel base (and by extension a longer car). You could still have vortex generators if you wanted. Narrowing the sidepods, by filling some of that void above the PU, would decrease drag.M840TR wrote: ↑09 Aug 2018, 22:52This is not the issue. It's a less ambitious sidepod design that's all. Their issues are some fundamental aero flaws that would take months worth of R&D. Renault's is even less aggressive but they were 0.8 sec ahead in Germany.Nonserviam85 wrote: ↑09 Aug 2018, 22:10But this is the issue, this design seems to underperform compared to the tall and narrow sidepod design. The Renault PU might have different packaging requirements but Red Bull made it work, so I guess McLaren should be looking that way.
I've been thinking the same thing for awhile.trinidefender wrote: ↑10 Aug 2018, 15:58
I'm actually going to hark at a guess and say a large part of the rear instability comes from the regulations for 2018 that forced changes in the front suspension and steering geometry which caused compromises in other parts of the car.
Ferrari had it last year yet they still went with longer wheelbase. Getting the intake narrower and higher doesn't free up more space for the bargeboards which is what they wanted for more efficiency. However, narrow sidepods do mean more area to play around with the diffuser and floor which is what RB did. But it's still not an adequate alternative for long wheelbase.diffuser wrote: ↑10 Aug 2018, 16:35I was talking about this as a counter to a longer wheelbase. I think this is a hell of a lot better solution than a longer wheel base (and by extension a longer car). You could still have vortex generators if you wanted. Narrowing the sidepods, by filling some of that void above the PU, would decrease drag.M840TR wrote: ↑09 Aug 2018, 22:52This is not the issue. It's a less ambitious sidepod design that's all. Their issues are some fundamental aero flaws that would take months worth of R&D. Renault's is even less aggressive but they were 0.8 sec ahead in Germany.Nonserviam85 wrote: ↑09 Aug 2018, 22:10
But this is the issue, this design seems to underperform compared to the tall and narrow sidepod design. The Renault PU might have different packaging requirements but Red Bull made it work, so I guess McLaren should be looking that way.
Weight
- Longer car, heavier Car. Compromises on Balance
- Sidepod that start further back is even lighter still (less sidepod).
True about Ferrari, they did go with a longer wheelbase. What is unclear is if Ferrari's longer wheelbase is better. Clearly it wasn't at Monaco where RBR didn't have a power deficiency. but then the difference between the 2 chassis are greater than just the wheelbase.M840TR wrote: ↑10 Aug 2018, 19:49Ferrari had it last year yet they still went with longer wheelbase. Getting the intake narrower and higher doesn't free up more space for the bargeboards which is what they wanted for more efficiency. However, narrow sidepods do mean more area to play around with the diffuser and floor which is what RB did. But it's still not an adequate alternative for long wheelbase.diffuser wrote: ↑10 Aug 2018, 16:35I was talking about this as a counter to a longer wheelbase. I think this is a hell of a lot better solution than a longer wheel base (and by extension a longer car). You could still have vortex generators if you wanted. Narrowing the sidepods, by filling some of that void above the PU, would decrease drag.
Weight
- Longer car, heavier Car. Compromises on Balance
- Sidepod that start further back is even lighter still (less sidepod).
Vettel was only 0.2 sec down in quali. The Redbull still has more downforce; could notice it in Silverstone so it's not just slow corners.diffuser wrote: ↑10 Aug 2018, 22:05True about Ferrari, they did go with a longer wheelbase. What is unclear is if Ferrari's longer wheelbase is better. Clearly it wasn't at Monaco where RBR didn't have a power deficiency. but then the difference between the 2 chassis are greater than just the wheelbase.M840TR wrote: ↑10 Aug 2018, 19:49Ferrari had it last year yet they still went with longer wheelbase. Getting the intake narrower and higher doesn't free up more space for the bargeboards which is what they wanted for more efficiency. However, narrow sidepods do mean more area to play around with the diffuser and floor which is what RB did. But it's still not an adequate alternative for long wheelbase.diffuser wrote: ↑10 Aug 2018, 16:35
I was talking about this as a counter to a longer wheelbase. I think this is a hell of a lot better solution than a longer wheel base (and by extension a longer car). You could still have vortex generators if you wanted. Narrowing the sidepods, by filling some of that void above the PU, would decrease drag.
Weight
- Longer car, heavier Car. Compromises on Balance
- Sidepod that start further back is even lighter still (less sidepod).
At any rate. If I where McLaren I would go the same route as Ferrari + RBR and shorten the sidepods BEFORE lengthening the wheelbase.