Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[sosic2121]

These figures are interesting.

It’s difficult to draw any conclusions from the drop in speed of the Mercedes. If it was a gradual decline it would imply a quite small reduction in power, perhaps 10 or 20 kW. It might have been that it continued at 321kph and then slowed under lift and coast. It isn’t, I think, consistent with switching off the MGU-K.

The Ferrari figures suggest a continued application of K assistance, although my crude simulation only requires around 80kW to achieve the rise from 321.9 to 325.2kph. Perhaps only the H is driving the K in self sustain mode. The fall then to 320kph over 104m is quick enough to suggest the K switches from driving to full 120kW recovery, over a period of a little less than 1 second harvesting about 100kJ.

The question is did either of them reached terminal velocity before derating? I think not.

My impressions are:
-Mercedes ran out of ES, so derated K from 120kW to what ever H can produce (60-70kW),
-Ferrari derated in order to harvest(as you said).

[alexx_88]

Otherwise, why wouldn't you use the excess energy you have at the beginning of the straight?

They are, same as Mercedes is.
But extra energy doesn't mean extra power, just that they can deploy for longer. That would be a reason why when Mercedes start loosing speed, Ferrari keeps accelerating.

No team is able to run the compressor on electric power alone in the race and with the wastegates open - as they do during qualifying runs. As such, all deployment/harvest strategies are a compromise between when to add backpressure to the ICE while harvesting with the MGU-H and when to run the compressor with electric power alone and bypass the turbo.

Given the above, I'd expect any extra energy a PU manufacturer finds to be deployed by running the compressor on electric power for longer during the main straights.

[henry]

These figures are interesting.

It’s difficult to draw any conclusions from the drop in speed of the Mercedes. If it was a gradual decline it would imply a quite small reduction in power, perhaps 10 or 20 kW. It might have been that it continued at 321kph and then slowed under lift and coast. It isn’t, I think, consistent with switching off the MGU-K.

The Ferrari figures suggest a continued application of K assistance, although my crude simulation only requires around 80kW to achieve the rise from 321.9 to 325.2kph. Perhaps only the H is driving the K in self sustain mode. The fall then to 320kph over 104m is quick enough to suggest the K switches from driving to full 120kW recovery, over a period of a little less than 1 second harvesting about 100kJ.

The question is did either of them reached terminal velocity before derating? I think not.

My impressions are:
-Mercedes ran out of ES, so derated K from 120kW to what ever H can produce (60-70kW),
-Ferrari derated in order to harvest(as you said).

My impressions are different. I revisited my calcs and I now think:

Mercedes stopped using ES and switched to ICE only charging the ES with the H

Ferrari stopped using ES and switched to ICE + H for 126 metres and then to ICE only (charging the ES with the H and finally to ICE - K charging the ES with the H and K.


I think the 319kph is around the Mercedes terminal velocity using ICE only.

My calculator isn’t setup to do 3 modes of power so I’m not 100% confident in Ferrari numbers, but I think the overall picture fits the basic data.

[alexx_88]

Mercedes stopped using ES and switched to ICE only charging the ES with the H

Ferrari stopped using ES and switched to ICE + H for 126 metres and then to ICE only (charging the ES with the H and finally to ICE - K charging the ES with the H and K.

What do you mean by ICE + H?

[henry]

Mercedes stopped using ES and switched to ICE only charging the ES with the H

Ferrari stopped using ES and switched to ICE + H for 126 metres and then to ICE only (charging the ES with the H and finally to ICE - K charging the ES with the H and K.

What do you mean by ICE + H?

I mean when the MGU-H is driving the MGU-K to supplement the ICE crank power. So if Crank power is 550kW and the H produces 60 the total power is 610kW. This is often referred to as self-sustain mode.

[NL_Fer]

Remember in 2014 er all hailed the Merc split turbo, for being the best, but Ferrari/Renault kept their conventional design.

Maybe the split turbo has it’s limits in size compared to the Ferrari design and now combustion efficiency has reached such level Ferrari has more headroom in their turbo design?

As a result Ferrari can harvest more and deploy longer. Using their superior rear traction to put it on the tarmac.

[sosic2121]

These figures are interesting.

It’s difficult to draw any conclusions from the drop in speed of the Mercedes. If it was a gradual decline it would imply a quite small reduction in power, perhaps 10 or 20 kW. It might have been that it continued at 321kph and then slowed under lift and coast. It isn’t, I think, consistent with switching off the MGU-K.

The Ferrari figures suggest a continued application of K assistance, although my crude simulation only requires around 80kW to achieve the rise from 321.9 to 325.2kph. Perhaps only the H is driving the K in self sustain mode. The fall then to 320kph over 104m is quick enough to suggest the K switches from driving to full 120kW recovery, over a period of a little less than 1 second harvesting about 100kJ.

The question is did either of them reached terminal velocity before derating? I think not.

My impressions are:
-Mercedes ran out of ES, so derated K from 120kW to what ever H can produce (60-70kW),
-Ferrari derated in order to harvest(as you said).

My impressions are different. I revisited my calcs and I now think:

Mercedes stopped using ES and switched to ICE only charging the ES with the H

Ferrari stopped using ES and switched to ICE + H for 126 metres and then to ICE only (charging the ES with the H and finally to ICE - K charging the ES with the H and K.


I think the 319kph is around the Mercedes terminal velocity using ICE only.

My calculator isn’t setup to do 3 modes of power so I’m not 100% confident in Ferrari numbers, but I think the overall picture fits the basic data.

Do you have any more info, other than was already posted in this thread?
I looked for YouTube videos, but found non with telemetry.

[red300zx99]

Anyone have the GPS traces that the Mercedes engineers are referring to?

[Sevach]

I'm wondering if this isn't an aerodynamics thing with those mirrors and the from-the-top inlet to the coolers. My guess is that above a certain speed, some combo of this, that or the other stalls something that produces downforce below that speed.

Some sort of aerodynamic wizardry sounds more plausible imo. Otherwise, why wouldn't you use the excess energy you have at the beginning of the straight?

There's an output limit of 160 hp, you can't go over this.

What is implied is that the Mercedes needs to save some energy(by de-rating) at the end of the straight to complete the lap.
In years past we saw Ferrari cars that clearly needed to de-rate at the end of long straights like China while the SF71-H can keep pushing on because it's MGUH harvests so much.

[saviour stivala]

Otherwise, why wouldn't you use the excess energy you have at the beginning of the straight?

They are, same as Mercedes is.
But extra energy doesn't mean extra power, just that they can deploy for longer. That would be a reason why when Mercedes start loosing speed, Ferrari keeps accelerating.

No team is able to run the compressor on electric power alone in the race and with the wastegates open - as they do during qualifying runs. As such, all deployment/harvest strategies are a compromise between when to add backpressure to the ICE while harvesting with the MGU-H and when to run the compressor with electric power alone and bypass the turbo.

Given the above, I'd expect any extra energy a PU manufacturer finds to be deployed by running the compressor on electric power for longer during the main straights.

The difference in use of the free load mode between qualifying and the race is, in qualifying during a lap (over a lap) there is no problem as regards full fuelling (consumption). And there is neither a problem with starting the next lap with an empty of charge ES. Anybody using free load mode during the race laps cannot use it for as long over the lap as it is used in qualifying, But free load mode is and always have been used during a race by those that can afford to use it.

[MtthsMlw]

https://mobile.twitter.com/tgruener/sta ... 3528649733

[dren]

Pixie dust?

[Zynerji]

Pixie dust?

They signed Tinkerbell!

[sosic2121]

They are, same as Mercedes is.
But extra energy doesn't mean extra power, just that they can deploy for longer. That would be a reason why when Mercedes start loosing speed, Ferrari keeps accelerating.

No team is able to run the compressor on electric power alone in the race and with the wastegates open - as they do during qualifying runs. As such, all deployment/harvest strategies are a compromise between when to add backpressure to the ICE while harvesting with the MGU-H and when to run the compressor with electric power alone and bypass the turbo.

Given the above, I'd expect any extra energy a PU manufacturer finds to be deployed by running the compressor on electric power for longer during the main straights.

The difference in use of the free load mode between qualifying and the race is, in qualifying during a lap (over a lap) there is no problem as regards full fuelling (consumption). And there is neither a problem with starting the next lap with an empty of charge ES. Anybody using free load mode during the race laps cannot use it for as long over the lap as it is used in qualifying, But free load mode is and always have been used during a race by those that can afford to use it.

+1

[Big Tea]

Where did I read reports of 'white powder' around the orifice?