Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
DCM
DCM
0
Joined: 19 Sep 2015, 20:49

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post

bill shoe wrote:
29 Aug 2018, 14:54
DCM wrote:
29 Aug 2018, 00:56
Don't know, it's all speculative but I would think that unless they wanted it to move, they would have prevented it form doing so to such a degree.
I doubt Merc is trying to intentionally use rear wing motion as a Tuned Mass Damper. In the recent post-Hungary test, they tried a rear wing with twin mount-posts, right? This shows they are interested in stopping the motion.

But yes the TMD ban is nearly impossible to police and I suspect it's being used somewhere on some car in a subtle way that involves relatively normal flexing rather than obvious TMD-looking things. The FIA can't stop parts from having mass and non-infinite stiffness.
Or investing in an insurance policy

But I agree the front of all the cars, especially the front wings are all flexing and moving etc. With todays computers and solid state gyro sensors it wouldn't be too hard to study the actions to harness any gains available.

User avatar
Sierra117
23
Joined: 08 Oct 2017, 10:19
Location: New Zealand

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post

Monza should be very interesting. Despite having more wing, getting a bad corner exit and getting no tow, Lewis and Vettel were pretty much side by side towards the end of the straight at Spa!
NIKI LAUDANZ SolidarityCubolligraphy | Instagram | Facebook
#Aerogorn & #Flowramir

User avatar
Morteza
2308
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:23
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post

Image

Image

Image


Also this is new
Image

Image

Via @AlbertFabrega
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

User avatar
atanatizante
115
Joined: 10 Mar 2011, 15:33

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post

This Monza spec rear wing was already run by Bottas in Spa or it`s just a new one?
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

User avatar
MtthsMlw
1036
Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 18:38
Location: Germany

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post


f1316
f1316
82
Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post

If Mercedes do continue running that spoon wing at Monza, they can hardly be scratching their heads about why Ferrari have better straight line speed - running less wing isn’t exactly a new ‘trick’!

User avatar
MtthsMlw
1036
Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 18:38
Location: Germany

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post

f1316 wrote:
30 Aug 2018, 20:03
If Mercedes do continue running that spoon wing at Monza, they can hardly be scratching their heads about why Ferrari have better straight line speed - running less wing isn’t exactly a new ‘trick’!
Don't they have to run more wing because they don't make so much DF from the floor/diffuser because of the low rake set-up?

User avatar
Vanja #66
1581
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post

Could be that their diffuser doesn't allow them to run low-camber/AoA aerofoil in CL, otherwise it stalls.
AeroGimli.x

And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

f1316
f1316
82
Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post

But again, if so, it once again goes to show that the narrative of the sudden Ferrari PU leap is a fallacy - it seems more a question of Mercedes no longer having a sufficient PU *advantage* that lets them get away with these kinds of higher df/drag wing.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post

Mercedes no longer having a big PU advantage is the same as Ferrari making a big PU gain. Ferrari didn't suddenly discover drag free downforce. It might not come from the rear wing, but downforce still means drag.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

User avatar
Vanja #66
1581
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
30 Aug 2018, 21:50
Ferrari didn't suddenly discover drag free downforce.
They kinda did, last year.
AeroGimli.x

And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

zibby43
zibby43
613
Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 12:16

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post

Comparison of the top 3 teams' rear wing setups.

Merc's is very shallow.

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 3218985984

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post

Vanja #66 wrote:
30 Aug 2018, 22:15
Just_a_fan wrote:
30 Aug 2018, 21:50
Ferrari didn't suddenly discover drag free downforce.
They kinda did, last year.
Sorry, when did they break the laws of physics last year?
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

zibby43
zibby43
613
Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 12:16

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post

f1316 wrote:
30 Aug 2018, 20:03
If Mercedes do continue running that spoon wing at Monza, they can hardly be scratching their heads about why Ferrari have better straight line speed - running less wing isn’t exactly a new ‘trick’!
Isn't the spoon wing a low drag/downforce solution? As the AoA decreases toward the end plates, the design produces weaker vortices at the tips.

And if you consider the rake of the Ferrari, which of the two wings, overall, has the greater AoA?

Thanks in advance!

User avatar
djos
113
Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post

zibby43 wrote:
30 Aug 2018, 23:28
Comparison of the top 3 teams' rear wing setups.

Merc's is very shallow.

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 3218985984
It is shallow but look how thick it is compared to the Ferrari and RedBull main wings!
"In downforce we trust"