Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[godlameroso]

Nothing you said here means that it is illegal to run a pre-chamber. Just for your information there were talks about using a pre-chamber on this forum before anything in the press. It has even been said that the press may have got the idea from reading this forum.

HCCI was never seriously considered here either, some were talking about it but from my memory it was quickly discarded as unusable due to being too unstable (even if used with spark assistance so it would be legal).

Lastly, it was confirmed by Honda that pre-chamber technology is being used by most if not all of the engine manufactures including Honda themselves.

What this guys said.

The Honda combustion chamber layout revealed in the article translated on this forum coincides with the injector placement seen on both Honda and Merc engines. It also appears compliant with all FIA regs, unless our friend SS is of a different opinion ?

HCCI with spark assistance would still not have been legal (read article I gave date for and read my posts) because one prime pre-requisite of HCCI is variable valve timing.

No one thinks HCCI is being used, for one it doesn't work well at high loads.

[trinidefender]

Nothing you said here means that it is illegal to run a pre-chamber. Just for your information there were talks about using a pre-chamber on this forum before anything in the press. It has even been said that the press may have got the idea from reading this forum.

HCCI was never seriously considered here either, some were talking about it but from my memory it was quickly discarded as unusable due to being too unstable (even if used with spark assistance so it would be legal).

Lastly, it was confirmed by Honda that pre-chamber technology is being used by most if not all of the engine manufactures including Honda themselves.

What this guys said.

The Honda combustion chamber layout revealed in the article translated on this forum coincides with the injector placement seen on both Honda and Merc engines. It also appears compliant with all FIA regs, unless our friend SS is of a different opinion ?

HCCI with spark assistance would still not have been legal (read article I gave date for and read my posts) because one prime pre-requisite of HCCI is variable valve timing.

I understand that English isn't your first language but please try to understand.

TJI and HCCI are not the same thing. We are saying that no one uses HCCI. We are saying that teams use a derivative form of TJI where only one injector is used. Again, fundamentally, HCCI and TJI are completely DIFFERENT combustion concepts.

[saviour stivala]

I do not need telling that HCCI and TJI are not the same, I never said they are.
I did not said HCCI was or is being used, in fact I was the one that upset the person that pushed out its use in F1 to his followers by telling him that HCCI is not compatible with F1 rules (ref article 16th April 2016).
As to TJI, when the HCCI pusher abandoned pushing out HCCI to his followers and instead started pushing out TJI (24th April 2016 article). I was also the one that told him that what he was presenting (Malhe TJI illustration) was not compatible with F1 rules, it was after that that he like some on here took the injector out of the Malhe TJI system and dreamed of it being placed so as to inject from outside to into the Malhe pre-chamber.

[saviour stivala]

What this guys said.

The Honda combustion chamber layout revealed in the article translated on this forum coincides with the injector placement seen on both Honda and Merc engines. It also appears compliant with all FIA regs, unless our friend SS is of a different opinion ?

HCCI with spark assistance would still not have been legal (read article I gave date for and read my posts) because one prime pre-requisite of HCCI is variable valve timing.

I understand that English isn't your first language but please try to understand.

TJI and HCCI are not the same thing. We are saying that no one uses HCCI. We are saying that teams use a derivative form of TJI where only one injector is used. Again, fundamentally, HCCI and TJI are completely DIFFERENT combustion concepts.

So you are telling me that Honda (the head of Honda F1 team) said and confirmed that they were using a ‘pre-combustion chamber’ in their combustion process, I believe that I haven’t ever missed anything that any of the heads of Honda F1 team ever said and never read what you are claiming was officially said, namely that they Honda are using a pre-combustion chamber in their combustion process.

[PlatinumZealot]

Malhe TJI combustion system is not compatible with the FIA direct injection rules. Because it injects and ignites in a pre-combustion chamber.
Because Malhe is a FERRARI partner it doesn’t mean FERRARI are using Malhe TJI combustion system.

Well, it is easy to say that and many of us had that as an initial thought but that problem has been a good mind exercise for us forum members; to see how to implement TJI into the current FIA rules. I can see you are new here, but if you dig up a few threads you will see some ingenious solutions by some of the forum members.

[dren]

So you are telling me that Honda (the head of Honda F1 team) said and confirmed that they were using a ‘pre-combustion chamber’ in their combustion process, I believe that I haven’t ever missed anything that any of the heads of Honda F1 team ever said and never read what you are claiming was officially said, namely that they Honda are using a pre-combustion chamber in their combustion process.

Honda PU thread, page 845, translated by Hino.

[roon]

Are teams doing this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18AP4R_btKI

Seems like they would. Cold-blowing, as it was called in the EBD days. I think this might also be a way to get additional kinetic energy recovery under braking, by cold-blowing the turbine/MGUH.

Having the throttle open under braking would lead to engine overrun.

Fuel would be cut, preventing overrun. Engine inertia would be curtailed by friction losses, pumping losses, and vehicle mass. Also, as AJI said, the MGUK can simulate engine braking. 160hp thereof; roughly equivalent to, or more than these high compression 1.6 L mills would otherwise provide with a closed throttle?

...this trick avoids the usage of fuel, so I can't imagine it's illegal when the clear and only goal is to keep the engine boost up.

Could also keep the MGU-H energized off throttle.

[trinidefender]

I do not need telling that HCCI and TJI are not the same, I never said they are.
I did not said HCCI was or is being used, in fact I was the one that upset the person that pushed out its use in F1 to his followers by telling him that HCCI is not compatible with F1 rules (ref article 16th April 2016).
As to TJI, when the HCCI pusher abandoned pushing out HCCI to his followers and instead started pushing out TJI (24th April 2016 article). I was also the one that told him that what he was presenting (Malhe TJI illustration) was not compatible with F1 rules, it was after that that he like some on here took the injector out of the Malhe TJI system and dreamed of it being placed so as to inject from outside to into the Malhe pre-chamber.

Again I'll repeat myself. The people on this forum are not sheep. I'm fairly certain that the idea for pre-combustion technology being used in F1 was proposed and looked at here BEFORE anyone from the press said it.

We were talking about pre-combustion chamber technology while the press were still pushing the silly HCCI idea that was believed by almost no one here on this forum. A few believed it but not many as far as I'm aware.

Mudflap isn't proposing HCCI either. The article he is referring to is not the same one that you are talking about. I believe he is referring to one a few posts above this one.

[dans79]

Again I'll repeat myself. The people on this forum are not sheep.

You got that right, if anything we are the wolves!

[Mattchu]

More like...

[saviour stivala]

Malhe TJI combustion system is not compatible with the FIA direct injection rules. Because it injects and ignites in a pre-combustion chamber.
Because Malhe is a FERRARI partner it doesn’t mean FERRARI are using Malhe TJI combustion system.

Well, it is easy to say that and many of us had that as an initial thought but that problem has been a good mind exercise for us forum members; to see how to implement TJI into the current FIA rules. I can see you are new here, but if you dig up a few threads you will see some ingenious solutions by some of the forum members.

Agree PlatinumZealot that many of you ‘us’ had a good mind exercise in how to implement TJI into current FIA rules, and I believe (and already explained this, but haven’t been let through) that most probably the speculation pusher of TJI use in F1 (article/s referred too) rode on ideas from on here to save his day on his site (article). Also no doubt there are some very ingenious solutions by some of the forum members that is exactly what makes this site so interesting. Yes I am a new participant on here, but be assured that I have been following this site much before your joined-up date.

[gruntguru]

So you are telling me that Honda (the head of Honda F1 team) said and confirmed that they were using a ‘pre-combustion chamber’ in their combustion process, I believe that I haven’t ever missed anything that any of the heads of Honda F1 team ever said and never read what you are claiming was officially said, namely that they Honda are using a pre-combustion chamber in their combustion process.

Honda PU thread, page 845, translated by Hino.

I will head over to that page and give Hino an upvote as well. Great article and wonderful transparency from Honda. I wish all the teams were so open with their technology.

All this makes me think, the F1 rules should be changed to allow 2 injectors per cylinder. Mahle TJI has clear road-car benefits and it makes a lot of sense to let the F1 engine developers loose to help optimise the system to realise its ultimate potential.

[aral]

Whilst this discussion is great it is a bit over the top. The topic of the thread is "Ferrari power unit hardware and software", so please try and confine your comments to that specific power unit

[dfegan358]

For some reason I have a memory of somebody saying on here a few months back that Ferrari and Mercedes would revert back to spec B power unit for Singapore as it was less of a power track?

Anybody got any further info on that? I could be completely wrong though.

[subcritical71]

For some reason I have a memory of somebody saying on here a few months back that Ferrari and Mercedes would revert back to spec B power unit for Singapore as it was less of a power track?

Anybody got any further info on that? I could be completely wrong though.

I believe it was (correct) speculation that since they only had ~5 races on the one spec that they would reintroduce it for more racing at a later time. Unfortunately I don’t know of a way to see which PU elements the teams are on, AFAIK the FIA only publish when a new unit is fitted and do not mention when one is refitted.