damn.. hoped for a non-ferrari podium

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Steven
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damn.. hoped for a non-ferrari podium

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pfff after that bump of Schumacher and the somewhat unconventional tyre choice of Barr I was hoping for a non Ferrari-winner, even maybe none on the podium... unfortunately again a 1-2 :(

I was so much supporting Alonso, but then that little mistake. It makes me angry that marshalls are always willing to push schumacher out, but when it is someone else, they must quit for some reason.

Ooh F1 is like a love-hate relation sometimes... (mostly love fortunately)

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Yet again another Ferrari 1-2 but at least this one was exciting.

Alonso should try to spin in Spain instead to see if it makes a difference :D

/ Fx

Monstrobolaxa
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Well I was hoping Button would win

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Spencifer_Murphy
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The Alonso spin was a joke...Micheal spins in Germany (Well not at the german GP, but at the Nurburgring in 2003) and gets outside assistance due to the car being in a dangerous position. Fair enough I can live with that, safety is a good thing. But Alonso spins and comes to rest half beached on the kerb on the outside of the corner exit right on the racing line (JUST like Schumi in 2003) and this is deamed to be safe?!

Its funny also to note that this shambles takes place at the ITALIAN grand prix where the Tifosi (quite rightly) would like a Ferrari 1-2, and that Alonso until just before that piont was leading MS. Why is it that Schumi is sometimes (Not always) treated like some sort of demi-god?

No wonder Alonso kicked the gravel trap when he got out of the car. Its a joke, and its things like that which taint an otherwise interesting race.
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You win some and you loose some and Schumacher wins lots more than the others :D

Alonso leading Schumacher in Italy how likely was it that the marshalls would push his car back on the track ?

/ Fx

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sharkie17
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christ, guys, even if alonso would have gotten back on track, do you really think that he would have had a chance to win? Barrichello won a damn good race. and schumi did a great job of coming back from 14th. simple as that.

pompelmo
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well my comment to the race is:
If schummy would become stuck like alonso, 10 of marshals will came to the car and lift it and put it on the track..altough is forbiden..ferrari is a national pride of Italy..it's cool if they won!!

Reca
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Fx wrote: Alonso leading Schumacher in Italy how likely was it that the marshalls would push his car back on the track ?
Two reasons for it being very unlikely and none of them is related with the fact that Alonso wasn’t driving a red car or with the fact that Alonso happened to be temporarily in front of a 2s per lap faster driver...

First reason. All the gravel traps on the Monza’s track (I don’t know about other tracks I can just assume it’s the same) are quite deep, minumum 20-25 cm in the very first part close to the track and way more than half a meter in the deepest point, because the aim is to stop the car. It’s quite hard just walk on it, let alone to try to push a trapped car with your feet sinking in the gravel. Once the car is stopped with the underfloor touching the gravel (as in the Alonso’s case, since the rear wheels were freely spinning) there’s no way to move the car but lifting it. Had Alonso stopped a few meters forward, with half car on the kerb, probably the kerb itself would have prevented the underfloor to touch the gravel and maybe he would have had a chance to be pushed back on the track, but given the position where he stopped, sorry, no way.

Second reason. few days after the Nurburgring 2003 race I’ve seen the Italian gp race director, Davide Galbiati, on a tv program about motorsport we have on a local tv on Thursday night (he’s often a guest when there are rules related episodes) and he said that, although what the marshals did there was clearly inside the rules, he would have instructed the Monza’s marshals to avoid to push back on the track a driver stuck in the gravel and in a dangerous position. He also said that, if the safety measures are correctly designed, to remove the car is far less dangerous than to try to push it back on the track, also considering that this would throw debris and gravel on the tarmac. Galbiati also made a phone call at the same tv program during the pre-gp tests, the same day of the MS and Trulli incidents, and he was really worried about the tyre problem because we had lot of accidents during both recent tests here, in June and in September, most of them tyre/suspensions related (Zonta, Massa, Panis twice, Fisichella, MS, Trulli...) and a couple of them happened exactly at Variante della Roggia. He made it very clear that he would have avoided any unnecessary risk at the gp. To try to push a car back on the track requiring the driver to spin to put himself in the right direction, in a blind corner with other cars passing at short intervals and arriving at 330-340 km/h at the braking point, is an avoidable risk.

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Steven
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sharkie17 wrote:christ, guys, even if alonso would have gotten back on track, do you really think that he would have had a chance to win? Barrichello won a damn good race. and schumi did a great job of coming back from 14th. simple as that.
wtf does that matter? Renault is fighting hard for the constructors championship 2nd place with BAR, and if they would have pushed him back on he would have gotten 3 points, which is quite a lot regarding the small measure between BAR and Renault at this time.

It's not really about that, but about the principle. I think there must be stricter rules for this, not some kind of interpretive things. Thereafter, organisation should be fined for HUGE errors like this.

It's one day past us and I'm still angry about it. I have learnt to live with Schumi being champion for the 100th time, but not that he is always priviliged by the FIA, by Ferrari and by any other organiser. They all are trying to win, but this way it's really easy for Schumacher

Irvingthien
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I share the same dissapointment as you Tomba. Obviously the season has been sucky. The show host (in Malaysia) are obviously lying. They quoted that the Monza GP was more exciting than Belgium. :lol: .

I hoped for another McLaren challenge but, full credit to Ferrari, they won on their home ground.

Something has to change, altough there's more excitment on the track, but there's no excitment in the drivers' and constructors' table. It's Ferrari through and through. I am sick of this.

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It's one day past us and I'm still angry about it. I have learnt to live with Schumi being champion for the 100th time, but not that he is always priviliged by the FIA, by Ferrari and by any other organiser. They all are trying to win, but this way it's really easy for Schumacher
Making a comeback from P15 into P2 is a real breeze, isn't it?
And geting past #2 in the constructors BAR is also a breeze...

People may whine all they want about Schumi, but truth is, the man is RIGHTFULLY the No.1 in the world, by FAR the best driver in the field, and when one dire day he says he quits the sport is gonna be one hell of a poorer sport to be since then and till the day one new driver can be able to fill in his shoes.

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Something has to change, altough there's more excitment on the track, but there's no excitment in the drivers' and constructors' table. It's Ferrari through and through. I am sick of this.
To finish first, first you have to finish. That is said by Michael Schumacher.
When you have incompetence on McLaren's place, and William's place, and then you whine about Ferrari's dominance, yes, you need to change something.

You need to put a sock in it, and try to follow Ferrari's steps. Talk less, work harder, and harder, and DAMN HARDER, till the day that you put things together.

Instead of cussing against those that beat you, just stop talking and do something.

That's the way to win.

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sharkie17
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Tomba wrote:
sharkie17 wrote:christ, guys, even if alonso would have gotten back on track, do you really think that he would have had a chance to win? Barrichello won a damn good race. and schumi did a great job of coming back from 14th. simple as that.
wtf does that matter? Renault is fighting hard for the constructors championship 2nd place with BAR, and if they would have pushed him back on he would have gotten 3 points, which is quite a lot regarding the small measure between BAR and Renault at this time.

It's not really about that, but about the principle. I think there must be stricter rules for this, not some kind of interpretive things. Thereafter, organisation should be fined for HUGE errors like this.

It's one day past us and I'm still angry about it. I have learnt to live with Schumi being champion for the 100th time, but not that he is always priviliged by the FIA, by Ferrari and by any other organiser. They all are trying to win, but this way it's really easy for Schumacher
thats fine... but some of your attitude is that ONLY Michael gets special treatments and some guys dont... and thats simply not true. (if you guys think so, fine, that is your own opinion and i will respect it). If MS was in the same situation, things might have been different.. or it could have been the same as the Alonso's... (no push). But dont just assume that just because it was Alonso that he didnt get a push. that would be just ignorent.

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Steven
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sharkie17 wrote:thats fine... but some of your attitude is that ONLY Michael gets special treatments and some guys dont... and thats simply not true. (if you guys think so, fine, that is your own opinion and i will respect it). If MS was in the same situation, things might have been different.. or it could have been the same as the Alonso's... (no push). But dont just assume that just because it was Alonso that he didnt get a push. that would be just ignorent.
Sharkie I am really convinced that if it was Schumacher he would have been pushed back on the road, it is that simple. I am very much convinced of that (and not alone here apparently)

Reca
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Tomba wrote: Sharkie I am really convinced that if it was Schumacher he would have been pushed back on the road, it is that simple. I am very much convinced of that (and not alone here apparently)
You have no reason to assume that’s the case but to believe that since it happened in Italy the marshals would have risked their lives and drivers lives just to put a Ferrari back on the track.
I already showed you two reasons explaining why it wouldn’t have happened. In the meanwhile I’ve also noticed that the relevant rule on the sporting regulations has been modified compared with last year, isn’t up to me to explain if/how that modification has an effect on a similar situation but I can assume that race directors asked FIA/Charlie Whiting for clarifications and they know what must be done in that case.

I happen to know a couple of marshals (not the ones involved) and I can assure you that, although they are volunteers, they are professionals, they put drivers safety first, their own safety then, and they just don’t think about how the race is going, who will win etc. they just don’t have the time to do it. Maybe you forgot Paolo Gislimberti, Monza didn’t and I swear that before to risk a marshal life again we really prefer to have both Ferrari out of each race of the year.

You have just said on another topic that Alonso is your preferred driver and Renault is your preferred team. Using the same logic you used judging Monza’s marshals I can say that if Sunday it was another driver stuck in the gravel, say Klien or Panis, you would have had nothing to say or you would have said that marshals did the right thing. Would I be right in assuming that ? I don’t know, I don’t have the counterproof so I prefer not to think that it would be the case because it would be an insult to your integrity.
For the same reason and since you don’t have the counterproof of your accusation it would be nice to give a bit of respect to people working on track and risking their lives.