Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

[AJI]

I saw an ad for the Nissan lief (electric) today and it claims 'one peddle'?

Press to go, lift to stop. Does this mean that if your foot slips or you sneeze you get rear ended?

(https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-v ... html#POWER)

It's press to go lift to re-gen, just like every other EV with re-gen.
It still has a brake pedal

[Tommy Cookers]

is it safe to assume that ? .....
the pedal is lifted by a return spring
when it's on the fully lifted position some energy from the car's motion is taken by the 'motor' (and stored)

is this regeneration torque fixed ? (this could be seen as illegal)
or modulated by having a continuous ('seamless') relationship between pedal position and drive/regen torque ?

btw is Mr Nissan Leaf from planet Earth ?

[loner]

Emission rules make electric-car makers on the verge of profitability

The European Parliament voted on plans to cut carbon dioxide car emissions by as much as 45 percent by 2030 from an average 95 grams per kilometer in 2021 - a goal many automakers are already in danger of missing, on pain of fines running to hundreds of millions of euros.
Volkswagen has said the ID hatchback, due to open the brand's electric onslaught next year, will be priced close to conventionally powered versions of the Golf compact.

https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d674d7967 ... are_p.html

[subcritical71]

Emission rules make electric-car makers on the verge of profitability

The European Parliament voted on plans to cut carbon dioxide car emissions by as much as 45 percent by 2030 from an average 95 grams per kilometer in 2021 - a goal many automakers are already in danger of missing, on pain of fines running to hundreds of millions of euros.
Volkswagen has said the ID hatchback, due to open the brand's electric onslaught next year, will be priced close to conventionally powered versions of the Golf compact.

https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d674d7967 ... are_p.html

Good article, but it is a bit sensational on the losses that will occur due to EV cars. The car makers wouldn’t be lowering the cost of the cars if it didn’t make financial sense. In the case shown, it’s cheaper to reduce the cost of the EV car to promote adoption than to pay the fines which are a direct and 100% result of the gasoline engine, not the EV. So it’s the gasoline engine and government imposed goals that is threatening the profitability of the car maker in this case.

[AJI]

is it safe to assume that ? .....
the pedal is lifted by a return spring
when it's on the fully lifted position some energy from the car's motion is taken by the 'motor' (and stored)

is this regeneration torque fixed ? (this could be seen as illegal)
or modulated by having a continuous ('seamless') relationship between pedal position and drive/regen torque ?...

I think in everyday driving conditions it is safe to assume that when the pedal is lifted re-gen begins. Whether it's 0.01% or 100% would be based on torque demand. Cruise control is where I'm assuming pedal lift auto modulated re-gen is most useful to maintain a constant speed without any driver input?

[Big Tea]

If you look at about 13 min in this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnIg-aEHD-Y

[Andres125sx]

If you look at about 13 min in this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnIg-aEHD-Y

It looks brilliant for daily driving

Hopefully some day people will focus on the real advantages of EVs instead of the eco-friendly or not debate, because the real advantages are several, driving at complete silence, vibrations free, instant torque, easier to use, less maintenance required, much better reliability...

[subcritical71]

If you look at about 13 min in this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnIg-aEHD-Y

It looks brilliant for daily driving

Hopefully some day people will focus on the real advantages of EVs instead of the eco-friendly or not debate, because the real advantages are several, driving at complete silence, vibrations free, instant torque, easier to use, less maintenance required, much better reliability...

I'm surprised this is such a big deal in the video. As someone else already mentioned, it pretty much standard on all EV vehicles. Also, on the Tesla at least, if the battery is at near full charge the feature does not work as there is no room to charge with a full, or nearly full battery.

Edit: Here is an article from 2007 on Regen Braking. https://www.tesla.com/blog/magic-tesla- ... ve-braking. It's interesting that the article brings up the advantages and disadvantages to the way regen braking is activated. Tesla ultimately put the accelerator pedal as the regen control, which to me makes the most sense.

[Tommy Cookers]

they fix off-accelerator 'regen' over-run torque to match roughly the conventional car's off-accelerator over-run torque
this is what makes it legal
higher 'regen' torque is available only in accelerator-varied option and never in off-accelerator regen option

what kind of driving needs instant (large they mean) torque both positive and negative ?
irritating and childish driving annoying to the other 30 million road users (as the usual big motorcycle shows)

my car has instant torque available as it has CVT-like torque conversion (as do hundreds of millions of others)
EVs may do their torque conversion another way (or not ?) but they have eg 3 gears

[Big Tea]

they fix off-accelerator 'regen' over-run torque to roughly match a conventional car's off-accelerator over-run torque

higher 'regen' torque is available only as accelerator-varied not off-accelerator
(this behaviour like a big-engined motorcycle's is fun for the childish user but irritating to the other 30 million drivers)

what kind of driving needs instant (large they mean) torque both positive and negative ?
irritating and childish driving

my car has instant torque available as it has an automatic transmission (as do hundreds of millions of others)

The advantage here sees to be that there is no 'down shift' and it is seamless both ways.
If you use engine over run on a bike (I love big singles) you have to 'blip' and flick with the throttle closed.
This seems to be the equivalent of a blast in second gear and shut off to a stop.

My concern was just how severe the retardation is when you consider the brake lights are not activated.

[AJI]

...
My concern was just how severe the retardation is when you consider the brake lights are not activated.

Good point, but do we know the brake lights are not operated in this mode?
I assumed they would be as it's effectivily a substitute for using the brake pedal..?

[Big Tea]

...
My concern was just how severe the retardation is when you consider the brake lights are not activated.

Good point, but do we know the brake lights are not operated in this mode?
I assumed they would be as it's effectivily a substitute for using the brake pedal..?

Hmmm, yeeea, I never considered that


So the vehicle behind has to decide if its stopping or clipping? (exaggerate mode off)

[AJI]

...
My concern was just how severe the retardation is when you consider the brake lights are not activated.

Good point, but do we know the brake lights are not operated in this mode?
I assumed they would be as it's effectivily a substitute for using the brake pedal..?

Hmmm, yeeea, I never considered that


So the vehicle behind has to decide if its stopping or clipping? (exaggerate mode off)

It won't matter when the car behind 'knows' the car in front (or the car 10ks up the road for that matter) is slowing, but that should probably be in the autonomous vehicles thread.

In all seriousness though, I take your point about faster than expected deceleration. There was a case here not too long ago where a car (VW Polo I think?) unexpectedly came out of cruise control whilst on the motorway. The driver didn't notice, and the fully loaded B double behind it couldn't do anything about it...

Edit: It was a golf, and a gearbox issue, but a pretty close facsimile of what we're talking about

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-1 ... ll/4747694

[henry]

they fix off-accelerator 'regen' over-run torque to match roughly the conventional car's off-accelerator over-run torque
this is what makes it legal

What law is it that says how a vehicle behaves in the way you describe?

A road test of three e-cars has the following.

The e-Pedal in the Leaf is so fierce you can come to a stop without even touching the brakes – which might not impress the car behind looking for your brake lights to illuminate.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/car ... -Golf.html

[henry]

EVs may do their torque conversion another way (or not ?) but they have eg 3 gears

I looked at Tesla S, Nissan Leaf, BMW i3, Renault Zoe. They all claim single speed.

What examples are ther of more gears?