Autonomous Cars

[Just_a_fan]

Certification will effectively become international because manufacturers sell cars to many countries. You'll end up with some agreed base standard which might be locally tweaked for local cultural requirements. There are plenty of international standards for things so it won't be a "new thing".

[henry]

It would seem reasonable that there would be capability certification in a limited number of jurisdictions, maybe even worldwide. What should inevitably be local is situation certification.

So level 4 will be two part.

1 capability
2 the applicability of that capability to a geographic location. (Situation)

So a vehicle might be certified for L4 on a particular set of major roads but not in a particular city.

Authorities could use geofencing to control this.

[Big Tea]

It would seem reasonable that there would be capability certification in a limited number of jurisdictions, maybe even worldwide. What should inevitably be local is situation certification.

So level 4 will be two part.

1 capability
2 the applicability of that capability to a geographic location. (Situation)

So a vehicle might be certified for L4 on a particular set of major roads but not in a particular city.

Authorities could use geofencing to control this.

I don't know what the knock on effect of this would be, but I know I do not drive as well after a spell without driving and it takes a while to 'get into it' again. Switching from being a passenger to the driver may need a change over period.

When I was working and did high millage I was far more aware than I am now that I only do around 500 miles a month, this will apply to everyone once the car does the high miles.

[subcritical71]

Certification will effectively become international because manufacturers sell cars to many countries. You'll end up with some agreed base standard which might be locally tweaked for local cultural requirements. There are plenty of international standards for things so it won't be a "new thing".

Additionally the U.N. already stipulates most regulations concerning automobiles, so I would assume they would also set any AV standards. As far as enforcement I would guess that would go together with more regional or local regulators.

[Just_a_fan]

Additionally the U.N. already stipulates most regulations concerning automobiles, so I would assume they would also set any AV standards.

Except, of course, the US is notable in not accepting these regulations. Any car going there has to be modified to fit US regulations. I doubt that would change.

[subcritical71]

Additionally the U.N. already stipulates most regulations concerning automobiles, so I would assume they would also set any AV standards.

Except, of course, the US is notable in not accepting these regulations. Any car going there has to be modified to fit US regulations. I doubt that would change.

Yeah, I think local authorities would/could have stricter rules. I don't think the member states would be less stringent(?) Even in the US there are differences between individual states on required equipment. Off the top of my head those are mostly concerning emission requirements. CARB - California Air Resource Board, and therefore California, are normally the most stringent when it comes to emissions equipment on a car in the US. Most manufacturers who export to the US just make sure they satisfy California law and therefore are legal in all 50 states. This becomes more of an issue in the aftermarket business.

[Andres125sx]

Certification will effectively become international because manufacturers sell cars to many countries. You'll end up with some agreed base standard which might be locally tweaked for local cultural requirements. There are plenty of international standards for things so it won't be a "new thing".

It should, this is what common sense suggest, but they´ve been unable to agree even about emissions or even the side they will put the wheel so...

[AJI]

...or even the side they will put the wheel so...

Wheel...? Where...?

[subcritical71]

...or even the side they will put the wheel so...

Wheel...? Where...?

It should be on the right side, which is the left side!

[Phil]

I look forward to seeing how 'computers' will solve the issue when a person/animal/object randomly decides to step in front of an AV and refuse to step out of the way.

- Will there be a manual mode, where a driver can 'step-in' at his own responsibility? (and if yes, will drivers of the future still receive the same kind of schooling to be 'on the road'?)
- if yes, how will that go in with the AVs ability to act around 'rogue' AVs (AV acting out of the collective)?

- Will he not be able to and the traffic will come to a complete stop...
- ...that then adds to the chaos around him when all other AVs react to that traffic build up?


These are very simple obstacles AVs need to be able to solve, yet are rather complex to tackle.

You guys gotta make up your minds. You now say it's understood you still have to be paying attention and have your hands on the wheel. Other times you talk of answering e-mails and doing work. Which is it?

This is where this whole development is counter-productive. The AV idea obviously comes out from wanting the roads to be a safer place. Yet by developing driver aids, we are directly encouraging drivers who are now more and more relying on these automatism's and driver aids (that will eventually progress to autonomous vehicles) to rely more on the tech rather than their own instincts and ability. In other words; We are encouraging less attention while driving, because there's a driver assistance module that will "jump in" warn and supposedly save the day. Until it doesn't.

A friend of mine's parking sensor was broken/blocked. Guess what happened? Drove right into the pillar of an underground parking in reverse. Extensive damage. Thanks to all these gadgets, people are becoming more and more reliant on them, to the point they fully trust it and are hopelessly inapt to doing it how they once learned it when they learned how to drive. Same applies to all other gadgets that are finding their way into modern cars.

I can already see the first big accidents coming with semi assisted AVs when people will be reading newspapers while on their commute to work, only to crash because the car overlooked something obvious to the human-eye/brain, but not the AV.

I get the point that the tech will not evolve over night, but it is scary to think how all the effort being sunk into this kind of tech only really makes us more muted as we give up our responsibilities to a piece of software.

[Just_a_fan]

Yes, there are problems to overcome, but then humans have issues too. One thing we do know is that AVs won't drive when drunk, on drugs, tired from lack of sleep, stressed by a family problem. They also won't succumb to road rage, agressive tendancies etc. They can be simply tied to the traffic signal system so that they won't run red lights, won't drive in to unsuitable situations (lorries hitting low bridges, for example).

[graham.reeds]

The cars first responsibility will be to the passengers of the AV. So avoiding the immediately ahead accident will be the priority. When another potential accident is detected then the onboard computer will try and avoid that one.

Cars should not be linked to each other as it will be easy to poison the well and send malicious updates to other vehicles causing problems. The cars will have to figure out it's immediate vicinity from onboard sensors, no external influence.

Also the amount of influence the passengers can have on a given situation is down to the level of autonomy that the vehicle has. Level 5 has no controls what so ever.

The correct side for the steering wheel is on the right.

[Phil]

For all those things, i could name a million of reasons on what will be extremely difficult to tackle by a piece of software with zero intelligence that could either cause the whole dream to fail due to impracticability or simply lead to more accidents over the “flawed humans”.

And for all the flaws of humans behind the wheel, how many of those you listed could be solved/helped by stricter laws and better awareness/schooling?

The roads are getting more dangerous as a result of increasing density and distractions. Laws and education must adapt too (which to a large part it hasnt or not adequately).

[subcritical71]

I know its not apples to apples and I keep creeping in with airplane analogies but to your point about who will have ultimate authority. Airbus flight computers currently use flight control laws which in most cases give the computer the ultimate authority and control. It doesn't matter what the pilot does the computer will override his actions if it (the computer) thinks your actions will exceed a particular flight parameter. This is not autopilot, this is the nuts and bolts flying portion of plane (stick and rudder stuff).

I for one hope cars will keep the steering wheel. I still love to drive. I want to have control if 'I' deem it necessary.

[Phil]

I think the airplane analogies are not relevant. When you talk about "auto-pilot", no one is talking about computer assisted flying where the fly-by-wire goes through a computer to maintain optimal flight control for the pilot.

And if we are talking about "auto pilots", the air traffic is a little less dense than what you find on your local roads.