Fernando Alonso driving

[timbo]

2004:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Di0WRbdaU[/youtube]

2008:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFy9Rc1OMac[/youtube]

Look at his steering thru club. In 2004 he was very agressive - he throws the car into the corner. Now his driving looks more like Raikonnen or Schumaher, still agressive but not that crazy. Is this chassis? Or has he evolved?

[mariof1]

It is because of the tyres I think. Something to do with slip angles maybe. I do remember quotes from him and other Michelin drivers regarding the need to change their styles to suit the Bridgestones.

[Alexpcenteno]

Also you got to remember that they do not have TC anymore

[modbaraban]

Also you got to remember that they do not have TC anymore

Exactly. I actually took my time to try and compare the experience by driving a few laps of the track in rFactor with and without TC (using BMW F1.08).
As Alonso himself mentioned the braking area before Vale is extremely bumpy so it's very easy to lock the front wheels. Then you have to enter the corner smoothly keeping the steering as straight as possible hitting the curbs. Then if you have TC to help you you just turn nito Club, open the throttle quite soon and basically wait for the corner to end, that's it. Without TC though you shouild consider how stable the car is after the previous left-hander, turn in gently and be very precise with the throttle not flooring it for much longer than you do with TC. Actually you have to ballance the throttle almost until you hit the curb on the exit. The acceleration out of Club is the most oversteer-prone at Silverstone, IMO.

[timbo]

Correction: first video is 2006 actually, I don't understand why I typed 2004

Here's another video - 2007, however I couldn't find Silverstone, so here's Fuji.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nJKy_tWXoc[/youtube]

As much as I agree with TC having it's influence I think that it is more likely tyres, as his driving of 2007 resembles more of 2008 than 2006.

[Roland Ehnström]

Yeah, Fernando definately smoothened out his turn-in from 2006 to 2007, most likely because the Bridgestone tires are different from the Michelins. He had a very unique way of using the special characteristics of the Michelin fronts in 2005-2006, and it probably contributed to his world championship titles.

[Miguel]

I agree with Timbo, it has almost everything to do with the optimum slip angles of the Bridgestone control tire. It's happened to Kubica too. It's possible that this difference is biggest in slow-speed corners, since on the first few races Hamilton used to be better than Alonso in the slow sectors (basically up to Barcelona).

[Spencifer_Murphy]

I read an interview with Pat Symonds once where he said that one of Fernando's biggest assests (and sometimes his biggest flaw) is his ability to "drive around" the problems in a car. He sited this as a fualt because when he fiest came to renault he would neglect setup (apparently) because "I can drive it anyway" lol.

I guess with the renault he found a way to get the best out of it, with the Mclaren he couldn't do that so he found a new way to drive the car - work around what isn't working so well.

This leads me to the conclusion it must be the tyres as the change is clearly post single-tyre supplier, where he made a switch from Michelin to Bridgestone. It could however be a little more complex where by its actually the switch from a Michelin shod RENAULT, to a Bridgetone shod something-else. (I.e renault and their specific mass damper/chassis/suspension/tyre package allowed Alonso to utilise this unusual technique).

[Ogami musashi]

I think this definitely related to tyres, especially tyre's grip.


In 2006 FA had an understeery configuration. however the tyres has lot's of grip especially in combined conditions.

The violent steering wheels manoeuvers you see is a transient load.

That's when FA did this, the car exhibited oversteer which is important for turn in.
Once loaded the car returned to the steady state understeer which provided Alonso good traction.

The steering wheel movement were aggressive at low speed because at higher speed he obtained the same transient load with less frequency.

To be able to do that, you need the tyre to support fast builds up in slip angles and have large grip.

This year with the control tryes, you can't do that anymore as those fast movement would go right past the max grip.

That's why the more grip (in all directions) you have the more aggressive you can be.

You can also play a lot on combined slip angles when your tyre have a lot of grip, but for some reasons, the downforce grip can't provide you with this as this is more a question of tyre construction and friction coefficient.

There's a world to say on F1 driving technics, each drivers has its own and many use technics you don't see in other series, especially all the transient technics (like FA one, but also the former MS power circle).

[Steven]

As was already said somewhere else in this forum, the Bridgestone tires have always had a much stiffer front tire construction compared to the Michalins and even compared to their own rear tires.

The sudden change in tire stiffness that Alonso experienced is playing against him. Even though he is a great driver, I image he would very much prefer a softer side wall on the tires. Hamilton on the other hand has had a smooth driving style and was used to the Bridgestone rubber when coming into F1, allowing him to better match Alonso in 2007.

[timbo]

Hamilton on the other hand has had a smooth driving style and was used to the Bridgestone rubber when coming into F1.

That is what makes me wonder. From on board cameras I can see that Lewis is smooth on steering (also like Massa) how is he then so hard on the tyres? Is that his braking technique or what?

[modbaraban]

That is what makes me wonder. From on board cameras I can see that Lewis is smooth on steering (also like Massa) how is he then so hard on the tyres? Is that his braking technique or what?

He does seem to lock the fronts quite too often. Also I have an impression that he tends to deal with understeer by just turning the steering wheel further towards the lock. That's just, imo.

[ernos5]

That is what makes me wonder. From on board cameras I can see that Lewis is smooth on steering (also like Massa) how is he then so hard on the tyres? Is that his braking technique or what?

He does seem to lock the fronts quite too often. Also I have an impression that he tends to deal with understeer by just turning the steering wheel further towards the lock. That's just, imo.

yer your completely right, almost every corner, well every lap for sure, Hamilton will lock up one of the front tyres, i could almost bet on it....people compare hamilton to schumacher and senna, when they used to call schumacher's left leg "ABS" which is completely opposite to hamilton, he should be called "ALB" <<Always locks brakes lol schumi and senna are in another league..

[Kester]

I imagine Hamilton also fires some more power to the rears when he gets some understear. Not a huge amount, but some to flick it out a little.

[Ogami musashi]

The fact hamilton locks the inner front wheel is pretty normal since his driving style loads a lot the front tyres under turn in.
Thus combined with trail braking it results in locks in the inner front tyre.

This is actually a good sign of hamilton exploiting grip near the limit of front tyres friction circle.

Should work better next year.